[Sage] Fixing Toxikon

[Liam_Harper]

Why is it okay that oGCD heals which aren't tied to any resource (mostly) are fine being optimal heals for DPS than the GCD Heals which are tied to a resource, a resource our class exclusive Materia is built around.

Because oGCD's come with a cooldown, thus requiring some thought or planning on encounters with higher damage, while GCD heals can be spammed mindlessly as long as you have the mana. Our "class exclusive Materia is a joke too. Piety is a "just incase" stat we're forced to prog with and impossible to balance because every point of mana you have over 0 at the end of a fight is wasted stats.

If Toxicon was optimal you might as well ignore half your single target oGCD kit and just EDiag whenever someone needs single target healing. It's not engaging gameplay.
An oGCD Toxicon would push you to bank 3 Stings for every buff window. You'd also have to burn all Stings before intermissions, then EDiag 3 people ready for the raidwide when the boss came back or you'd suffer up to nearly 1k dps loss. It wouldn't encourage more GCD heals, it'd be a dps tool to be optimized.

The only thing wrong about the "Misery Situation" is that Afflatus Misery lacks 340 potency to be DPS neutral. If it was literally nobody would complain about using Lilies to heal and not having many oGCD's on WHM.

Depends on downtime. If the boss is going to vanish at any point in the fight, you want to bank 3 Lilies instead of healing with them. In dungeons it's optimal to burn lilies while the tank is pulling mobs, not when they've stopped. Lilies are also a straight up loss near the end of a fight. You have to end with the Blood Lily on 0 or you lost potency.
Misery is a mess in more ways than losing 85 potency per lily.

[ty_taurus]

Because oGCD's come with a cooldown, thus requiring some thought or planning on encounters with higher damage, while GCD heals can be spammed mindlessly as long as you have the mana. Our "class exclusive Materia is a joke too. Piety is a "just incase" stat we're forced to prog with and impossible to balance because every point of mana you have over 0 at the end of a fight is wasted stats.

If Toxicon was optimal you might as well ignore half your single target oGCD kit and just EDiag whenever someone needs single target healing. It's not engaging gameplay.
An oGCD Toxicon would push you to bank 3 Stings for every buff window. You'd also have to burn all Stings before intermissions, then EDiag 3 people ready for the raidwide when the boss came back or you'd suffer up to nearly 1k dps loss. It wouldn't encourage more GCD heals, it'd be a dps tool to be optimized.



Depends on downtime. If the boss is going to vanish at any point in the fight, you want to bank 3 Lilies instead of healing with them. In dungeons it's optimal to burn lilies while the tank is pulling mobs, not when they've stopped. Lilies are also a straight up loss near the end of a fight. You have to end with the Blood Lily on 0 or you lost potency.
Misery is a mess in more ways than losing 85 potency per lily.

This is why I think it would be much better for Toxikon to stay GCD, increase in potency to 660, but just have a cooldown of 30 seconds with 2 charges. In this case, there's a small amount of banking you'd perform, but you can very easily just do that by casting E. Diagnosis on the main tank and they'll break the shield rather quickly. We already try and start with as many stacks as possible during prepull, and it increases burst potential (thus potentially requiring a drop in potency for Dosis and Toxikon to something like 300 and 600 respectively), and from there, it's more of a trickling maintenance where you want to keep your stacks filled, but can't burn through them fast enough to make you lean on E. Diagnosis exclusively.

[Banriikku]

Make Toxikon damage neutral would be a start... the only i reason use it only at the beginning or in downtime is because i loose dps if i farm addersting.
And the better step would be make a diffrent trigger for addersting and done - it is good but beeing a full gcd is the problem in the end similar to the whm problem with the Lilys.
FOr me the only problem is the dps loss. Ekrasia+Diagnosis and the shield breaks is a lot for simple movement spell trigger.

[Seraphor]

What I actually came here for an an idea for Toxikon.

There's the debate around it being sufficient as a movement tool, like Ruin II which of course comes with a dps tax, and about the 'trade off' of spending a GCD on a heal instead of damage and not being reimbursed for it.
Well for starters I still think you shouldn't be fully reimbursed for it, because you're not entitled to maximum dps uptime just through the nature of using your base kit skills to heal. They're an 'emergency' or 'last resort' option, because you have the tools in your oGCD kit to prevent damage first, then you resort to GCD heals after that.
E. Diagnosis and it's Addersting generation is the exception, because it's a powerful shield that prevents damage. So yes some dps reimbursement, but not total reimbursement.

Toxikon as it is fulfils that role in a multi-target scenario, as it's more damage than Dyskrasia. But not in single target. In single target it is JUST a weaving/movement tool, and to be fair it fulfils that function well too. It has stacks that you can save to use it when needed. But you should have a choice, to use it either for movement/weaving, or to reimburse some of the dps tax for using your GCD heal.
That's where Eukrasia comes in:

Eukrasian Toxikon
Deals unaspected damage to target and all enemies nearby it with a potency of 450 for the first enemy, and 60% less for all remaining enemies.
Additional Effect: Restores HP to targets under the effect of Kardion granted by you
Cure Potency: 170
Addersting Cost: 1
Cast: 1s
Recast: 0.5s

Basically, you use 1s on casting Eukrasia, 1s casting Eukrasian Toxikon, and then jump straight back into your next GCD after that.
You sacrifice that weaving window for 120 additional potency. You're choosing between using your Addersting resource for damage or mobility.
It's not a full 330 potency reimbursement, so you're not forced to use Eukrasian Toxikon over regular Toxikon every single time, but if you don't have anything you need to double weave or any forced movement, then you can squeeze some extra dps out instead.
It also expands the uses of Eukrasia to boot.

[Seraphor]

And right now you dont choose. There is no use for 8-12 buttons mid fight on each healer because GCD nuke + oGCD heals is more than enough. And as i said Countless of times GCD healing reimbursting DPS would be MP negative, that by itself is enough to disincetivise spamming it and casuals wouldnt care since they build piety due to not caring. If GCD heals keep being DPS negative then pls do everyone a favor and just remove them from the healer design because having 8-12 buttons we actively try to avpid is not good gameplay design

Again, GCD heals still get use, when you've ran out of cooldowns. In the early game you have fewer or even no cooldowns, so you're constantly using GCD heals.

Which healer has 8-12 GCD heals?
Sage has TWO

[RinaShinomiya]

Again, GCD heals still get use, when you've ran out of cooldowns. In the early game you have fewer or even no cooldowns, so you're constantly using GCD heals.

Which healer has 8-12 GCD heals?
Sage has TWO

Im not just counting GCD healing buttons but also GCD healing related buttons. Stuff like Esuna, Egeiro, Swiftcast, pesis, Zoe and Repose. Granted Repose shouldnt even exist but thats still 8 buttons that you end up not using because its better to just oGCD heal and nothing is stopping the devs from changing early game healing to be oGCD centric. In that vein its also not good game design to design a healing system that gets outdated with each expansion released. Youre teaching new players the wrong healing style