An educated rant: Why pentamelding is %@$&*!-backwards

[Michieltjuhh]

I agree pentamelding is a horrible system. But I'm just amused because I can only assume the people complaining are former WoW players who left partially because they didn't like the pre-raid grind and were told that FF14 didn't have one, just to find out it's actually far worse in FF14.

Never believe that the grass is greener on the other side, folks. It really isn't.

[Avidria]

I agree pentamelding is a horrible system. But I'm just amused because I can only assume the people complaining are former WoW players who left partially because they didn't like the pre-raid grind and were told that FF14 didn't have one, just to find out it's actually far worse in FF14.

Never believe that the grass is greener on the other side, folks. It really isn't.

I dunno, I haven't raided in wow since Legion but I remember putting in far more pre raid effort there than here. It really depends what kind of content you're doing. Like, I barely even had to do anything to get enough materia to pentameld day one because I did enough hunt trains to have a few hundred clusters stockpiled. I don't do it, but you can also transmute materia into other materia, and I know some of the EW dungeons drop materia as well (though I forgot if they're 9s or 10s or both, I don't really watch dungeon loot drops anymore lol). I've gotten quite a few from passive spiritbonding and adventurer in need bonuses as well.

Two dudes in my static tag teamed to farm up all the mats for full crafted sets for everyone day one, and we all tossed in mats as able to help out. So yeah there is some effort, or cost if you don't wanna put in that effort, but it didn't seem like. Overwhelming.

I'm kinda glad crafters and gatherers aren't entirely obsolete in this game, and personally don't mind them being needed for some things. Especially things that aren't actually necessary to clear anything. It's just a nice boost, really, and one that doesn't necessarily even last that long.

[Michieltjuhh]

I dunno, I haven't raided in wow since Legion but I remember putting in far more pre raid effort there than here. It really depends what kind of content you're doing. Like, I barely even had to do anything to get enough materia to pentameld day one because I did enough hunt trains to have a few hundred clusters stockpiled. I don't do it, but you can also transmute materia into other materia, and I know some of the EW dungeons drop materia as well (though I forgot if they're 9s or 10s or both, I don't really watch dungeon loot drops anymore lol). I've gotten quite a few from passive spiritbonding and adventurer in need bonuses as well.

I don't know in what world doing hunts in the hundreds within the first few weeks of the expansion - in addition to getting your dungeons done, getting your extremes done (doesn't take long, granted) and getting your jobs leveled - isn't a massive grind.

Two dudes in my static tag teamed to farm up all the mats for full crafted sets for everyone day one, and we all tossed in mats as able to help out. So yeah there is some effort, or cost if you don't wanna put in that effort, but it didn't seem like. Overwhelming.

Prices spiked over 15000 gil per IX materia on my world. While I'm somewhat unfamiliar with the approach (as I'll refuse to participate in this nonsense), I have seen people dump 100+ materia for a single meld on a single item. That's absurdly expensive no matter how you put it.

I'm kinda glad crafters and gatherers aren't entirely obsolete in this game, and personally don't mind them being needed for some things. Especially things that aren't actually necessary to clear anything. It's just a nice boost, really, and one that doesn't necessarily even last that long.

The last thing they should've been made needed for is the top end PvE push, though. And while preparation can be done beforehand, it still has to all be done on the day itself, when people would.. you know, rather be raiding.

[Avidria]

I don't know in what world doing hunts in the hundreds within the first few weeks of the expansion - in addition to getting your dungeons done, getting your extremes done (doesn't take long, granted) and getting your jobs leveled - isn't a massive grind.


Prices spiked over 15000 gil per IX materia on my world. While I'm somewhat unfamiliar with the approach (as I'll refuse to participate in this nonsense), I have seen people dump 100+ materia for a single meld on a single item. That's absurdly expensive no matter how you put it.


The last thing they should've been made needed for is the top end PvE push, though. And while preparation can be done beforehand, it still has to all be done on the day itself, when people would.. you know, rather be raiding.

My point is I was doing that content anyway. I put in almost no effort at all getting ready for raid because I already had most of what I needed just playing as I normally do. The most grindy thing anyone in our group did was to make the gear itself, not even to meld it. My friends do more dungeons and roulettes than me, I'm assuming they got more stuff there instead of hunts probably. I actually rarely do extremes or experts since I don't pf much and don't like dungeon spamming.

So... How grindy or expensive it is depends a lot on what you do when you aren't raiding. I actually made a few million selling my leftover materia, so more than made up for what I did end up spending. Plus dropping to 7s / the next tier down is always a cheaper alternative that doesn't lose you too much in terms of stats.

And, again, Pentamelds are not necessary to anything. Except maybe pushing for record day clears I guess but I'm willing to bet those people are ready well ahead of time anyway.

[sharknado]

I agree pentamelding is a horrible system. But I'm just amused because I can only assume the people complaining are former WoW players who left partially because they didn't like the pre-raid grind and were told that FF14 didn't have one, just to find out it's actually far worse in FF14.

Never believe that the grass is greener on the other side, folks. It really isn't.

In WoW if you actually want to take part of the world first race that's like $5000 for the team, but depending on patch that could be way way higher to get one of first spots, and likely RMT there as well - wherever Blizzard one or not. If you are in normal mythic progression guild you have 1-2 nights a week, 2-3h max and you progress through easy first bosses then hit wall and wait for gear or some game systems to nerf the encounters. Here in EW right now people seems to see only 580 pentameld but not 590 gear as well...

In case of EW I would say there is to many people blindly following some guides but not really understanding why, or not even asking questions. Some say there is to many crafters and the prices collapsed. Looking at reddit daily questions people constantly ask about DoL/DoH gear, melding and whatnot, often not really having experience with it ("Can i craft patch gear with lvl 80 Handsaints?"). Melding overall is even more common - people seems to follow this like it's mandatory. Not sure if those are actually WoW players that assume pentamelding = WoW enchants = mandatory+easy.

And then people, especially WoW players, go to Icy Veins website, they click their job guide and "melding" is up there and they assume it's like enchanting in WoW so they have to do it. There is no wider message or meta "if your group isn't hitting enrage regularly at few % day 1-2 of patch with solid parses then wait for your 590 gear instead of forcefully getting crafted gear and pentamelding it".

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But in the end dumping 100 materia for a slot or two is not very "engaging gameplay". It somewhat work (hunt trains, fate trains, expert dungeons) just because the game supports it and players optimize. And then people optimize even more and take omnicrafting as player power so they "have to have it" even when likely a lot of them got burned on patch day not giving them moogtylions of gil.

IMHO they should not increase barrier to entry for savage/ultimate tiers (or WoW happens), but also they should have some good system for those mastery crafts. Like you get "sphere scrolls" and you can make your own stats for given gear item based on challenges the sphere scroll will require from you (mini relic grind or something - variant for the crafter and variant for the end user). You can customize your stats just like with overmelds but without the RNG and with sane progression path (it can be gradual and not day one all crafted gear or bust).