So this game has dps checks but we can't talk about our dps in game?

[Misutoraru]

If you use it just for yourself, might be ok. But have a look at the toxic game where lots of players have quit and are now in FF14, i do not think that there are many players who would like to see here again a parser and all the toxic behavior coming from.

It will always be misuse, and the discussion forum will end up who have bigger number speak louder. It happen on many MMO and it ruin it. Bit like the situation/story in the 90 Dungeon.

the current "grey area" way is best for everyone. Normal content have no need of it and I am pretty sure most of the static have someone running it. Feel sorry for those pure console party, but it is for the greater good.

[Atelier-Bagur]

As far as I'm aware DPS checks is a "party wide contribution". The timer doesnt matter nor care if one of you is doing the most dps, because they've been all designed to be beaten as long as EVERYONE is doing the damage. With a bit more leeway if a couple of people are K.O'd but the rest are doing optimal deeps anyway.

[Areic]

If you use it just for yourself, might be ok. But have a look at the toxic game where lots of players have quit and are now in FF14, i do not think that there are many players who would like to see here again a parser and all the toxic behavior coming from.

Anything being used in a toxic sense can just be reported, using our ability to simply speak in a toxic manner can be reported.

There's a difference between being educational and toxic, which is direly needed especially in harder content when people join but have zero clue how they're doing, have no desire to know, or just don't /know/ how to know. And without any of that they don't know that they're the ones dragging the party down when you can't meet the dps check

[Saraide]

That's terrible though, we're forced as a community to just silently kick people? We know /why/ they're the problem but we can't say why no matter how polite? While there are a heavy amount of people with little will to improve themselves, there are still some people who /want/ to improve themselves and I'm sure would like to know why they're kicked instead of booted without a word.

Yea it's not pretty but someone who actually wants to improve will seek out resources anyway. The balance is known widely enough that if they were to ask around, someone's going to point them there and while definitely not perfect it's absolutely a good starting point to get information (even if the community there is not the best). Usually doing mechanics well and doing damage go hand in hand anyway.
There is no perfect solution because for every polite person you have who will point out issues in a constructive way, you'll also have a bunch of people who dont know their own job, their party member's jobs or the boss fight flinging around dps numbers in an effort to feel better about themselves and put others down. I dont want toxic casual elitists to be allowed to talk about dps numbers.

[Floortank]

I mean, if a “casual” player:

-Still doesn’t know their job’s basic 1-2-3s by Lv. 90.
-Still gets ganked by every single mechanic, even simple ones introduced way back in ARR, at Lv. 90.
-Outright refuses to get better and instead throws a tantrum on the forums and demands for content to get nerfed the moment they get walled by literally anything in the MSQ.
-Responds to any form of criticism or feedback with nonsense like “YOU DON’T PAY MY SUB!” or “Help GMs! I’m being harassed!!!”

Then despite then things listed above, said player still sneaks into a Savage Clear/Farm PF thinking he’s entitled to a carry, then plays victim the moment he’s vote kicked by his seven other party members for wiping the raid over and over...

Then who’s really being the toxic one here? The casual, or the raiders? Really makes you think.

How do you know any of that is the case besides you fantasizing about it?

One time I logged in after losing my job. That day, I played really badly. But someone like you would say, "oh, that person boosted."

Get over yourself. You are not god's gift to gaming. You don't know why someone is struggling, or where they are in their experience at that moment. New players have to go into Savage and make mistakes in order to get better. If you don't want to deal with new players, make a static of all legends. What you're suggesting here is the exclusion of most of the playerbase. No one who goes 1->90 or 80->90 directly knows how to play their Job. It takes time for most people to do their rotation correctly. Not optimally, but correctly. It takes even more time for them to be good enough to do extremes, and more than that for them to do Savages.

You don't get to gatekeep and determine when people get to try these things.

[Euphares]

It will always be misuse, and the discussion forum will end up who have bigger number speak louder. It happen on many MMO and it ruin it. Bit like the situation/story in the 90 Dungeon.

the current "grey area" way is best for everyone. Normal content have no need of it and I am pretty sure most of the static have someone running it. Feel sorry for those pure console party, but it is for the greater good.

Is it for the greater good though?

You should know that the current state of the "high-end" community is pretty rancid because no one has confrontation in game due to the devs forcibly stifling it. Public name and shame documents, public blacklists, people clipping mistakes on streaming platforms and sharing them. You could literally have a bad reuptation after one bad day. This results in a lot of raider circles being clique-y and god help you if you aren't in the clique.

These sentiments trickle down to lower echelons of the playerbase as well, players will take advantage of the fact that no one can say anything and deliberately sandbag so they can AFK and get roulette rewards. Or you'll have players silently grief players they consider "bad." I've seen it happen on numerous occasions.

This problem isn't even a new thing either, so I don't think "WoW Refugee" boogeyman is to blame, its just growing increasingly worse as time goes on and SE needs to address it.



Weirdly enough, allowing players to be outwardly toxic helps to quell a lot of this residual toxicity in my experience. And I find residual toxicity to be far, far, more game ruining.

[caffe_macchiato]

You can't be serious and start whining about how there's the possibility of people harassing you over a parser or whatever scenarios y'all like to imagine in your heads when it rarely if ever happens in game.

Because it all happens outside the game. On Discords and on message boards. A Japanese player was almost driven to suicide on an anonymous message board because she was harassed due to her parse. This specific example is what led Yoshida to take a firm stance against it. This is not imaginary.

You know what does happen in game? People who don't know how to press their 1-2-3 combo or quadruple weave their gcds. There's no way that open communication about trying to kill the boss and making sure everyone is up to par is worse than the player who still doesn't know their rotation at level 90 and doesn't even have the right food buff on. And often you don't even need to bring third party programs into the conversation.

Then disband and reform the party. That’s an in-game function. There’s ample leeway in the current system to allow a clear.

It seems that you have excessive scorn towards your fellow players. Video games can be frustrating sometimes, but people need to remember that it’s just a video game. We all want the gear and the weapons, but we play the game because it’s fun and getting a clear is rewarding work. You can live without ilvl 590 gear for a while. 580 via crafting or tomestones is more than sufficient.

[Rolder50]

As far as I'm aware DPS checks is a "party wide contribution". The timer doesnt matter nor care if one of you is doing the most dps, because they've been all designed to be beaten as long as EVERYONE is doing the damage. With a bit more leeway if a couple of people are K.O'd but the rest are doing optimal deeps anyway.

This is true, but, if you are wiping on a boss because your party isn't doing enough damage, how are you supposed to tell who the slackers are?

[Atelier-Bagur]

This is true, but, if you are wiping on a boss because your party isn't doing enough damage, how are you supposed to tell who the slackers are?

Thats never an issue I ran across. All of my dps wipes has been due to more than 3 people are K.O'd during those phases, not because a couple of people havent been dpsing optimally

[Intellion]

Pretty fast considering how hard they seem to have been carried through p1s/p2s. I'm hoping they're just a troll and don't genuinely think they're in a position to be grading other peoples performance.. yikes.

Why yes, I'm a gray parser who dunks on other gray parsers, why do you ask?

Jokes aside though, that's another reason why I support an official in-game performance meter.


EW is actually the first time I've dove into Savage (before, I only tackled Extreme at most), and it's going pretty well so far.

For what it's worth, I did enough practice runs of P1S/P2S to execute all the fight mechanics perfectly, and managed to squeeze out just enough DPS to avoid hitting enrage.
Yet, my results could be much, much better despite me already clearing, and my only options right now for real-time evaluation is ACT, which I cannot get to work on my computer for the life of me, and even if I did, it's still a gray area at best, meaning the chances of getting a crackdown for it isn't exactly zero.


I know FFlogs is a thing, but it only seems to record performances after a clear of a certain boss, meaning that there's no way to know how your personal results were during a wipe, or when you're just wailing on a striking dummy. If there is a way to see that in FFlogs, I don't know how. I'm not good with these things. Regardless, SE should just give us an official in-game performance checker of sorts, so that I can finally have more real-time feedback of my performance without resorting to sketchy third-party tools that are technically still against ToS. If I get kicked from a party for not meeting their desired parses, oh well. To me, that's just a sign that I need to practice more, so I'll just get better until I'm good enough for said party. Or I'll make my own. No big deal. :/