So this game has dps checks but we can't talk about our dps in game?

[BigHoffie]

But you think this because you've played other games where it was allowed to call people's contribution into question... This has been made painfully, abundantly, clear that the problem representatives from SE have with parsers is not their use, but the harassment that goes with them. People do no say anything to anyone else about their performance in the content you're doing because of the harassment policy, not the parser one. Your constant whinging about "my levelling roulette is next" are completely unfounded and saying it over and over again won't make it right.

[Packetdancer]

I would like something like that.

<snip>

That's more or less what I've argued for in the past, yeah.

A personal tool for improving performance, optional and only accessible by yourself, which you can apply to basically any content... and then also a group performance/optimization tool that can be used by the group as a whole, but which is only accessible/present/unlocked/whatever in Savage or Extreme content.

[Rinhi]

Accountability is one thing. Perfection is a complete other. Even as I type this, this is in PF for Eden: Eternity:

""farm" | ds titan | any memes=kick+blacklist. KNOW THE FIGHT."

Maybe I do know the fight, maybe I don't, but what you are doing is turning people off from joining your party because I'm not trying to subject myself to this type of behavior. I realize this particular PF doesn't have anything to do with parsing, but this is the type of behavior I've witnessed in reference to parsing.

what does that have to do with anyone's point? you're deflecting from the issue by using some random's pf description as a catch-all for people disagreeing with you
you said it yourself, don't join those parties, nothing about that PF says or implies anything about parsing, just that the lead doesn't want players who aren't absolute pros at the fight or people expecting to get carried; but that's why they use PF and communicate it beforehand

I just don't understand the mental gymnastics in these threads about people vehemently being against any kind of personal accountability being introduced into (higher end) content, that the majority of the people against it don't and will never touch, and it really screams "I'm bad and I don't want people to know I'm bad" or "I know I'm bad and I don't want to improve"

there's nothing wrong with being a bad player, you can look my name up on that website and see that I have really low greys in extremes and I'm not saying this from the position of an "elitist" but rather from a player that is bad

[VerdeLuck]

There's isn't any problem with how the current system works. If you're frustrated by low dps, then get friends and don't play with random players, recruit people out of discord servers or your FC instead.
No one is stopping you from using any plugins or parsing, the only thing it stops is players from beating some random over the head with dps or uptime numbers in a roulette or party finder game.

The entire discussion is pointless because the developers have been asked over and over about including official dps meters for years and every time the answer is always the same, no. No, there will never be any official parsers or dps meters in the game because the devs are certain it will lead to harassment and toxicity. They have said many times it's don't ask, don't tell if you want to use a 3rd party one but they will never include one ever in the game.

[Snorky]

But you think this because you've played other games where it was allowed to call people's contribution into question... This has been made painfully, abundantly, clear that the problem representatives from SE have with parsers is not their use, but the harassment that goes with them. People do no say anything to anyone else about their performance in the content you're doing because of the harassment policy, not the parser one. Your constant whinging about "my levelling roulette is next" are completely unfounded and saying it over and over again won't make it right.

Here is exhibit A

[Packetdancer]

Don't misunderstand what I said please, if you are in a party to learn or if you have all agreed before hand I absolutely think as a static group you need that cooperation and give and take communication. I am totally not against that at all.

I'll confess I did misunderstand you, yes; the discussion in this thread is predominantly about the content in which DPS checks are relevant (Extreme and Savage), so I took your "I didn't ask you to monitor my DPS or comment on my performance" remark in that context. I.e., as though you were referring to groups gathered to do Extreme or Savage content.

If you don't do that content, that's totally cool! But then I'm not entirely sure the objection is super-relevant when the argument is "there should be some permissible way to allow a group to measure their performance and work to improve it specifically in the content where that's crucial to clearing". If you don't do the content where it's crucial to clearing, cool, you're correct, there's no reason to officially support those sort of tools in any other sort of content; I think most of the folks in the thread would actually agree with you there.

[Atelier-Bagur]

Why are people still acting like these tools dont exist in the game already? A lot of these arguments for parsing seem to be about the player's themselves gauging their own dps peformance. Ok feel free to do so, problem solved.

[LisSquid]

Why are people still acting like these tools dont exist in the game already? A lot of these arguments for parsing seem to be about the player's themselves gauging their own dps peformance. Ok feel free to do so, problem solved.

Honestly the idea of a personal toggle when in instances that are Extreme or higher with the exact same rules about "don't talk about it" would change very little aside from giving console players a QoL boost.

small edit:

There's a function on ESO where you can appear anonymously on people's logs. Using this option your logs can never be archived by anyone but you, and you won't get random logs on your page from a PF you did half asleep and also drunk.

[Packetdancer]

Why are people still acting like these tools dont exist in the game already? A lot of these arguments for parsing seem to be about the player's themselves gauging their own dps peformance. Ok feel free to do so, problem solved.

I mean, I think there's basically two things being brought up.

1. There is, so far as I know, no solution available which allows a Playstation player the option to analyze their own combat performance and look at how they can improve it. I will grant I may have overlooked one; if so, I'd actually honestly really appreciate a link to the details on it. (Because I have a friend playing on PS5 who right now relies on PC players logging for him and uploading those logs to be fed into XIVanalysis, and I'd love to be able to link him something that would let him be more self-sufficient there.)
2. As things currently stand, there seems to be a lack of clarity on how folks can address party efficiency in savage or extreme content. I.e., if I make a PF to clear a given fight, and it becomes obvious we cannot clear it due to a lack of actual damage being done to the boss, how can one address this? Do you just shrug and disband the party? If you can see someone's underperforming, do you just silently kick them (rather than bring up the topic of the damage they're doing -- or not doing -- and anything attendant on that), or do you reach out to try to ask if they'd like advice? Etc.

I don't know that there's a good answer to either of those two questions, but whether or not the answers are good I don't think we currently have answers to those in the first place. Again, I may be wrong; if they've been answered and I've overlooked those answers, please do point me at them.

And as noted, I really don't think just building a DPS meter into the game is a solution to either of those scenarios, for a whole variety of reasons; I think the former one can be solved with some creative design (witness the Google Doc I linked... lord, I don't know, many pages ago), though the second one seems more thorny. But I do agree with others that there's some value in maybe examining those two scenarios.

[BigHoffie]

Here is exhibit A

Exhibit A of what? People tired of you making up implausible scenarios in your head so you can whine about things that don't affect you in content you don't do? I hardly think I'm the first, maybe the most tired though.

*Edited in case you think I'm one of those people either doing that content or running a parse in roulettes. A cursory glance (ya know, doing any sort of due diligence before spraying the foam from your mouth all over these forums) would make it pretty clear I don't do either.