So this game has dps checks but we can't talk about our dps in game?

[Atelier-Bagur]

Why are people still acting like these tools dont exist in the game already? A lot of these arguments for parsing seem to be about the player's themselves gauging their own dps peformance. Ok feel free to do so, problem solved.

[LisSquid]

Why are people still acting like these tools dont exist in the game already? A lot of these arguments for parsing seem to be about the player's themselves gauging their own dps peformance. Ok feel free to do so, problem solved.

Honestly the idea of a personal toggle when in instances that are Extreme or higher with the exact same rules about "don't talk about it" would change very little aside from giving console players a QoL boost.

small edit:

There's a function on ESO where you can appear anonymously on people's logs. Using this option your logs can never be archived by anyone but you, and you won't get random logs on your page from a PF you did half asleep and also drunk.

[Packetdancer]

Why are people still acting like these tools dont exist in the game already? A lot of these arguments for parsing seem to be about the player's themselves gauging their own dps peformance. Ok feel free to do so, problem solved.

I mean, I think there's basically two things being brought up.

1. There is, so far as I know, no solution available which allows a Playstation player the option to analyze their own combat performance and look at how they can improve it. I will grant I may have overlooked one; if so, I'd actually honestly really appreciate a link to the details on it. (Because I have a friend playing on PS5 who right now relies on PC players logging for him and uploading those logs to be fed into XIVanalysis, and I'd love to be able to link him something that would let him be more self-sufficient there.)
2. As things currently stand, there seems to be a lack of clarity on how folks can address party efficiency in savage or extreme content. I.e., if I make a PF to clear a given fight, and it becomes obvious we cannot clear it due to a lack of actual damage being done to the boss, how can one address this? Do you just shrug and disband the party? If you can see someone's underperforming, do you just silently kick them (rather than bring up the topic of the damage they're doing -- or not doing -- and anything attendant on that), or do you reach out to try to ask if they'd like advice? Etc.

I don't know that there's a good answer to either of those two questions, but whether or not the answers are good I don't think we currently have answers to those in the first place. Again, I may be wrong; if they've been answered and I've overlooked those answers, please do point me at them.

And as noted, I really don't think just building a DPS meter into the game is a solution to either of those scenarios, for a whole variety of reasons; I think the former one can be solved with some creative design (witness the Google Doc I linked... lord, I don't know, many pages ago), though the second one seems more thorny. But I do agree with others that there's some value in maybe examining those two scenarios.

[Atelier-Bagur]

And as noted, I really don't think just building a DPS meter into the game is a solution to either of those scenarios, for a whole variety of reasons; I think the former one can be solved with some creative design (witness the Google Doc I linked... lord, I don't know, many pages ago), though the second one seems more thorny. But I do agree with others that there's some value in maybe examining those two scenarios.

Honestly I dont have a clear solution to that either. Im not against talking with your team about performance if you keep wiping nor am I trying to ignore dps checks wipes can happen to party finder folks. But thats the thing though, dps meters has such a terrible toxic stigma to them in the MMO community that 9 times out of 10 if you try to explain the mathematics behind their performance that just leads to arguments between both sides and it just becomes toxic. I speak of this from experience and hearing stories of many groups in other games whom just take the numbers waaay too seriously and use it to measure worth of players, its just part of the ugly side of human nature in online game, and its a variable the devs can at least prevent from just not openly supporting the tool into the game.

Personally most of the conflicts I run into are due to people failing mechanics more so than dps, Ive rarely ever run across party wipes where we didnt clear a phase due to everyone not perfectly maximizing dps performance; even with everyone alive, no rez debuffs and we used our LBs. Im not gonna say that your given situation doesnt happen though. The most you can do if you want to talk to random strangers in a party about improving performance is going over their rotations. You shouldnt expect other players to play perfect dps numbers in content, you should expect them to at least understand their job's toolkit and how to use their skills properly.

And yes if that means you keep getting multiple wipes from a dps check, then that just means that you and everyone else arent fully capable of clearing the enrage. If my group keeps wiping in the same exact phase with the same exact makeup (everyone is alive, LB3 usage etc) then I dont need dps meters to understand that we arent clearing the fight because our group cant deal enough damage; either maturally address this to them and if not just bail. I dont hold people against quietly bailing. For the most part if I see obvious human error during wipes then I give them the benefit of the doubt and try again.

[AmiableApkallu]

I mean, I think there's basically two things being brought up.

<snip>

2. As things currently stand, there seems to be a lack of clarity on how folks can address party efficiency in savage or extreme content. I.e., if I make a PF to clear a given fight, and it becomes obvious we cannot clear it due to a lack of actual damage being done to the boss, how can one address this?

If you have a group of reasonable people, whoever is running the parser and has the logs asks, perhaps up front (before the first pull), if everyone is okay discussing that data so that folks can determine what needs to happen to meet the DPS check. Those who are not comfortable with that quietly show themselves the door; those who are left have a productive discussion.

Otherwise, if you have to assume that someone might be unreasonable, your options are necessarily limited to kicking, disbanding, or suffering, because civil conversation won't be an option. And at the point where you have to assume someone might be unreasonable, it's not like an in-game tool or a change to the rules to allow talking about DPS is suddenly going to make those people behave reasonably.

[Ayche]

To repeat in that other thread that was also about this, especially public PF groups are very much part of the public space.
You cannot take your self-imposed standards into public PF, especially if you made absolutely no attempt to broadcast in the PF posting itself.

[Divinemights]

Seeing this discussion I can see why Yoship and his team didn't try to bring back FF11's sub job system to FF14 when there is a popular demand for it.
There is no way they can balance sub job system when players has a 3rd party tool and nitpicking on the DPS output.
Kinda really miss the endless potential with FF11's sub job system such as WAR/NIN, NIN/RNG, PLD/NIN, WAR/DRK, etc
So much interesting gameplays....

[Colt47]

You know I was kind of expecting people to bash me on stating we need harder content in the normal mainstream for the lower levels, but I guess everyone just feels that way after getting crystal tower so much in the Alliance roulettes. I mean the dungeons ramping up in difficulty seems fine, I just think the scaling of the difficulty needs work. This also makes sense since it hasn't been the biggest target on the developers radar right now.

[Divinemights]

Square Enix certainly can install some sort of DPS checker to ensure high end game process smoothly.
It is not like they haven't done it before (Maat from FF11, especially lvl 70 limit break quest has locked a lot people into lvl 70 for 1 or 2 years)
Is this what players need in FF14?

[VelKallor]

Square Enix certainly can install some sort of DPS checker to ensure high end game process smoothly.

They can, they wont, and their reasons for not doing so have been stated repeatedly. Im really not sure why people cant, or wont, accept this.