So this game has dps checks but we can't talk about our dps in game?

[Rinhi]

I find it funny how every time there is a demand parsers thread it always puts proof to why they should not be implemented.

Honestly the fact that we are having heated arguements over this issue pretty much confirms why parsing should stay out of FFXIV.

I really want whatever people like you two are smoking because all I see in these threads is only one side of the discussion getting heated and very pressed about it

and it's not coming from the pro-parser side, no, it's the side that's defending and absolving bad players of any responsibility because who gives a crap about personal responsibility and who cares about respecting the time and effort of other people, right? who cares that a 15 minute duty will take 30 or more minutes, a clear is a clear, right? the majority of people in the FC I'm in, which has just a few savage raiders, has stopped running roulettes because of people like you enabling the lazy and toxic players, and these aren't the only ones I know, other friends FCs have stopped doing them as well for the same reason

anecdotal evidence, sure, but attitudes like that are actively pushing "better" players away from roulettes, which results in the toxic attitude of you and the people that you are enabling to grow, hell, multiple high skilled players on these forums have said the same, that they, their friends and FCs have stopped running roulettes altogether because of people like you trying their hardest to stifle player development with your whole gig

then again, you'll just dismiss this post as more proof that the parsing boogeyman is bad and that your crappy attitude is the correct one, so

[Kolaina]

anecdotal evidence, sure, but attitudes like that are actively pushing "better" players away from roulettes, which results in the toxic attitude of you and the people that you are enabling to grow, hell, multiple high skilled players on these forums have said the same, that they, their friends and FCs have stopped running roulettes altogether because of people like you trying their hardest to stifle player development with your whole gig

I can relate. I went from trying to get my roulettes in everyday before work to can’t find the motivation to play. The amount of face palming and having players excusing it while calling anyone with any sort of criticism, even constructive, or anyone trying to give advice, toxic. Being accused of being elitists, or try hards, or sweaty. Not worth the time any more. It’s become almost a head ache handling these white knights for lack of a better term. These enablers

[ICountFrom0]

Yes. I would support a score card at the end of every normal and savage raid only you can see about your performance alone with tips.

Like C+:
You clipped too much
You interrupted several spells!

No one would have to know but you and it would help a lot.

I've always thought that this should actually be the function of the duty recorder.
You record your duty in the recorder. You wait an hour for them to parse the results. You get a complete breakdown of everything done right and wrong from your detailed score. If you want it faster, you pay a dollar for a 10 pack of tokens that get you instant results, no waiting.

[Pyro2hell3]

Personally i almost never even need a parser to tell whos dps is low the answer almost always the person spending 99% of the time dead on the ground. Well assuming said person isn't the healer leading us do die from the unavoidable partywide aoes. Still in either case a parser won't fix the problem.

[Somnolence]

Parsing is for optimization, to make sure you get your rotation down, to improve your own performance

People using "But Parsing will be used against me" are actually incredibly wrong.

Dying to easy mechanics, making obvious rotation mistakes that we can tell as clear as day, stand around and doing absolutely nothing....these are things people will have a problem with and we don't need a parser to know when someone is making mistake after mistake after mistake and not at all attempting to improve themselves.

Edit: And this needs to be emphasized, nobody is going to pull you over for not being perfect on your rotation, nobody is going to pull you over for tiny mistakes, nobody is going to get mad if you make a mistake, acknowledge it and rectify it after

People make mistakes, it's when someone refuses to acknowledge they're making a mistake and keep making it over and over and over or just are being plain lazy and expecting a carry.

This is what I and many others 100% have a problem with and how do we deal with it?

We disband and reform the group without the offending person.

If we are not allowed to call out that kind of behaviour, we just won't call it, we'll just find someone else that isn't behaving like a dead weight and refusing to admit they're the problem.

This is why doing PF sucks in this game and even more casual statics are way more time efficient and better for everyone's sanity - PFs are unwilling to kick worst offenders, but disband for people to join/create new party finders to "reroll" the party.

So you wait for PF to fill up, go in, spend time re-discussing strats (because of course there are multiple variants and macros floating around), eat food again, if its a "loot party" pop a potion in an opener only to realize this group won't work out and you need to find another one and start again.

No wonder FFXIV community is known for passive-aggressiveness as players get frustrated but avoid communicating and thus situation does not improve and eventually when it boils over it results in toxicity.

I think big reason for this is that Western players do not use JP server strategy of using PF to practice and raid finder to clear content. It works well for Japan because if raid finders are used then getting a party happens faster and if its is failing then vote abandon works as intended. And Japanese due their culture are far more self-conscious and do not want to stand out by being bad thus they prepare by learning their job and content and if they make mistakes - politely apologize.

[Atelier-Bagur]

I really want whatever people like you two are smoking because all I see in these threads is only one side of the discussion getting heated and very pressed about it

and it's not coming from the pro-parser side, no, it's the side that's defending and absolving bad players of any responsibility because who gives a crap about personal responsibility and who cares about respecting the time and effort of other people, right? who cares that a 15 minute duty will take 30 or more minutes, a clear is a clear, right? the majority of people in the FC I'm in, which has just a few savage raiders, has stopped running roulettes because of people like you enabling the lazy and toxic players, and these aren't the only ones I know, other friends FCs have stopped doing them as well for the same reason

anecdotal evidence, sure, but attitudes like that are actively pushing "better" players away from roulettes, which results in the toxic attitude of you and the people that you are enabling to grow, hell, multiple high skilled players on these forums have said the same, that they, their friends and FCs have stopped running roulettes altogether because of people like you trying their hardest to stifle player development with your whole gig

then again, you'll just dismiss this post as more proof that the parsing boogeyman is bad and that your crappy attitude is the correct one, so

You're seriously being over dramatic, not every single duty you queue up in DF is a total slogfest. The majority of this community is not in a situation where there's a clear divide between the casual and the hardcore like WoW. The situation that you're thinking is so minor in the grand scheme of things that its not even worth the potential toxicity parsing would bring into the game. It's like trying to fix a papercut with an atom bomb. There's nothing wrong to help others on how to play better, but bringing in numbers is just gonna drive away a lot of people from having fun only for the sake of the few who cares about max deeps. Again, you have solutions already available if you want to be hardcore. Nothing is stopping you on building a premade or better yet just teaching your friends on how to maximize your precious dps, all you have to do is not be a complete dilbert about it and it'll be fine. Get over yourself.

[Bobby66]

I do not think anyone is denying that parsing are misused. The real question is why exactly is such an offense is grounds to bar their use altogether in any official capacity moving forward. I am speaking as a player that gets called out often for poor performance, why exactly should others be bared from access to such a helpful tool IE console users because such players for whatever reason willfully or not do not meet the standards of the community?

Why are my feelings held in higher regard over the time and feelings of the rest of the group? Will an official parser increase the amount of harassment, of course that is bound to happen with an uptick of use. The real question should be what is the increase of accounts of misuse in proportion compared to when it was just available to PC users. I really do not think it would be overall that much higher if at all. I would love to see such data even though it will be impossible squire.

In the end it just appears people are being offended for others who do not meeet community standards. Let us be real the amount of people that play poorly to a point that would garner repeated offenses is probably very low. The game already provides support for harassment, sure it is reactive but why exactly should this form of harassment be proactive while other forms such as stalking, grooming etc . . . Reactive? The reality is we are preventing the use of the a tool based around a potential threat, past experience in another game does not warrant a reason to bar it in this game. Especially when SE already takes reports of parsing abuse seriously.

In short see parsing abuse report and move on. Why should this toxic behavior be treated any differently because the tool is officially supported or available?

[LisSquid]

PFs are unwilling to kick worst offenders, but disband for people to join/create new party finders to "reroll" the party.

I tried to sneak in a P2s clear before maint and got to eat paint as the two members of this "3rd Channeling to Clear" group couldn't figure out Limit Cut. Actually had to pull up clips from the fight as they tried to convince me that I and the BLM were always in "their" spot. Rest of the party was fine. Damage was pumping and everything felt comfortable. Just two people hardstuck us in this clear party and the leader refused to boot.

[Atelier-Bagur]

I do not think anyone is denying that parsing are misused. The real question is why exactly is such an offense is grounds to bar their use altogether in any official capacity moving forward. I am speaking as a player that gets called out often for poor performance, why exactly should others be bared from access to such a helpful tool IE console users because such players for whatever reason willfully or not do not meet the standards of the community?

Why are my feelings held in higher regard over the time and feelings of the rest of the group? Will an official parser increase the amount of harassment, of course that is bound to happen with an uptick of use. The real question should be what is the increase of accounts of misuse in proportion compared to when it was just available to PC users. I really do not think it would be overall that much higher if at all. I would love to see such data even though it will be impossible squire.

In the end it just appears people are being offended for others who do not meeet community standards. Let us be real the amount of people that play poorly to a point that would garner repeated offenses is probably very low. The game already provides support for harassment, sure it is reactive but why exactly should this form of harassment be proactive while other forms such as stalking, grooming etc . . . Reactive? The reality is we are preventing the use of the a tool based around a potential threat, past experience in another game does not warrant a reason to bar it in this game. Especially when SE already takes reports of parsing abuse seriously.

In short see parsing abuse report and move on. Why should this toxic behavior be treated any differently because the tool is officially supported or available?

Because like I said, its a double-edge sword. Ive been around delving into other MMOs to know this kind of toxicity seriously does kill a good portion of the game. But also why do you think SE doesnt actively go after players using parsing tools? You cant get banned from using it, just like they dont actively go detecting players using external software within the game as long as you dont talk about it in game. Clearly people parse in FFXIV but as a business standpoint it would be detrimental to the game if they officially introduce tools like that into it, no longer FFXIV would be heralded as the "casual" friendly MMO when more people start abusing parsing even for normal content and pushing it into other players. But like I said, nobody is stopping you from using those tools if you truly wish to use em, just that FFXIV isnt completely focused on high end content enough to warrant it, and honestly it should stay that way. Nobody wants this game to eventually become a WoW...........well ok nobody wants it to become the common worst aspects of WoW.

[Katt_Felista]

Text

That static couldn't even go past adds on p3S and i did clear P1S and P2S first week without them, when i joined that static they were pretty slow to learn and they still managed to criticize me for not being pentamelded and doing average to 23% of the overall damage ranking other tanks that would clear P2S, those fights don't really have that much of a "crazy" requirement for dps check or down. That group of persons were just having a huge ego / elitist fit, they allowed the members to do their own training on their free time during the week, and after the third day of raiding with the static, they allow you to go and clear the fight we don't in static.

When i said i cleared p3S it all started going very wrong with them, they begun to be very salty and agressive on the discord , then look into "details" and my gear, kind of mocking the fact i wasn't pentameld, that i did around a 9 to 10% of overall war ranking damage that cleared this P3S fight previously, so not only they used parses / logs to criticize but they also told me that it didn't mean anythingbecause i wasn't logged higher, while they themselves take AGES to learn a fight and it's patterns, positions and all that, while i would stay silent on these issues and keep coming in the static and try to help with some advices on the fight.

They never stated their static was an "elitist" parse / log and "ranking progression" fflog or anything type of static in their recruitement, all they had as an announcement is that they needed a tank to progress into savage raiding.

So yeah, doing that after the fact is pretty shit on their part. Pretty sure that their attitude was that , they were just disgusted that "me" a supposedly "idiot" or average player can down this fight and learn it much faster than them while they still can't figure out how to go past the adds that end of the week, and we were on P3S for 2 weeks with that static when i would already consistently reach the end of the fight / enrages on week 2 so, and i still kept coming into the training even tho i was seeing that it was going very slow, i did not even at one point expressed my opinion on this at any point about the static tho, but when i did clear it, all hell broke loose and the piling on / insults and "look at your gear, look at your parse man, yeah you cleared it but it's very low on the statistics dude , you are a sh*t player" .

The only thing that bother people like that is that average players with just some good will and perseverance, consistency, CAN actually clear these fights, there is no need for gatekeeping through ultra over the top elitist criterias.

There is just a community of gatekeepers and rmt'ers that would like to make you believe you have to do all this B.S. to clear these fight so they can parasitically live off from the game rmt's.