So this game has dps checks but we can't talk about our dps in game?

[Michieltjuhh]

Oh dear, you found me out. I definitely said those exact words :u.

You said people failing the most challenging part of a Savage boss are 'absolutely mindless, brainless, completely numb not doing their basic job rotations and not pressing enough of their damage buttons'. I'd wager that's because you disagree with that notion, but make no mistake, beating the enrage timer is by far the most challenging part, other than figuring out strategies for the mechanics, which the vast majority of players do not do, since they copy those from others. This stays the case until people outgear the content enough that even a subpar performance will suffice. At that point, the only people that are still raiding are those who struggle with the easier part of the fight - the mechanics already spelled out for them. Until then, whether you like it or not, early in the tier, people fail the dps checks all the time, because they do way too low dps despite failing no mechanics. Again, an official damage meter would assist them in bettering their performance.

[Atelier-Bagur]

Its like people arent even paying attention to what Im trying to say. Im not stating that everyone in this community doesnt know how to play their class, Im only stating that enrage timer clears happen because people within the group at least know how to do their rotations. If you're just sitting there not even trying and it just so happens that most of the group are also doing the exact same thing then of course there will be a wipe. Obviously I'm not the BEST example for raiding but from my experiencing with clearing Savage raids (yes including Pandaemonium Savages), I did them with my FC who dont rely on dps meters or external tools. I know there are mature people who can use those tools to positively engage with their group to do better or to gauge whats wrong. But you seriously cannot trust people in an online game enough to have it implemented where they dont use it to measure personal performance but to harass other players and make excuses for raid wipes. Its a behavior thats common with raiding in many MMOs, this is nothing new.

Since when did any MMO where they implemented those tools officially or otherwise made the raiding community better? Stuff like that just leads to yet another avenue for elitism. Yoshi-P and the devs know this and just like most of us, have been around the block in the MMO world to know the toxicity that brings. They just dont want to risk it and I know Im not the only one who agrees with that.

Its been even stated that initial progging period only exists for a short time before people already figure the fight out or we get BiS gear that makes them easier to clear. So why even have dps meters? Personally I'm happy to just learn how to play my class and do my rotations properly from looking up guides online and just basic practicing. I dont need dps numbers to measure my "worth" as a raider nor do I need to start judging others for forgetting to use one or 2 skills within their rotation in the heat of the moment.

But like Ive stated, these tools are already out there for those that want it. Theres no need to bother the devs to implement it officially when its not necessary for design of the content.

[Seera1024]

Its been even stated that initial progging period only exists for a short time before people already figure the fight out or we get BiS gear that makes them easier to clear. So why even have dps meters? Personally I'm happy to just learn how to play my class and do my rotations properly from looking up guides online and just basic practicing. I dont need dps numbers to measure my "worth" as a raider nor do I need to start judging others for forgetting to use one or 2 skills within their rotation in the heat of the moment.

Because some people like having a way to measure their improvement.

Because some people like to min-max their rotation in a fight and there are tools that use the numbers that come out of the DPS meter to analyze a fight and show where things were missed. Because our brains aren't perfect and you might forget exactly what you messed up if your brain registered it at all.

Any static whose leader permits members of their static verbally judging someone's parse without that someone's permission isn't a static that someone should want to be in unless the DPS of the group was too low to get past enrage and even then the judging would have to be done in a respectful manner. And the quicker the static leader outs themselves as someone who does that or allows for that to happen, the better. Because if I was in such a static, I would want to leave before I invested too much time in a toxic static.

[VelKallor]

Because some people like having a way to measure their improvement.

They can. For their own improvement. No one says they cant.

As long as they keep that to themselves.

[xxmiamorecadenza]

They can. For their own improvement. No one says they cant.

As long as they keep that to themselves.

I hope you mean that strictly in-game and no where else. But I assume you do.

I still can’t help but roll my eyes at that statement though. It’s genuinely hard for me to treat casuals seriously at this point.

[Kaurhz]

They can. For their own improvement. No one says they cant.

As long as they keep that to themselves.

Disagree. I think it's crucial for players to learn from each other. Particularly if there's a more adept person in the party. The only thing I think people should keep in mind is that there's a stark difference between helping someone / giving advice / constructively criticising their understanding of the class and just outright harassment. Keeping such to yourself when it can be used for the betterment of the individual is unconducive to learning and equally is a disservice to yourself and the player.

But again, stark difference between being civil and productive about it and harassing.

[Michieltjuhh]

They can. For their own improvement. No one says they cant.

As long as they keep that to themselves.

That's great, yeah, until someone completely full of themselves enters PF, because without any measurement they think they play well, then consistently does a lot less dps than they should, and you're not even allowed to tell them they're not good enough for the groups they're joining, nor talk about what they could/should be improving. Instead you have to hope the leader silently kicks them (or you do it as leader), then pray nobody else in the party a) leaves b) asks why.

And PF is full of those during the first weeks of Savage release. There wouldn't be a problem if trash players weren't so bloody full of themselves, but it seems a lot of people in FF14 never got past that childhood stage where they thought they were the best in the world because they beat their elementary school friends at something. Giving them a reality check about their actual performance compared to more than their own little echo chamber will do a lot to have people try and improve rather than accept unknown mediocrity.

[Seera1024]

They can. For their own improvement. No one says they cant.

As long as they keep that to themselves.

That was to someone going why need a DPS meter at all.