So this game has dps checks but we can't talk about our dps in game?

[UkcsAlias]

I am sorry to people who hate the idea of being watched, but DPS NEEDS to be visible SOMEWHERE.

This only works if its optional by opt in, and cannot be forced by random people. So only in a full lobby by a vote that has been accepted by all players. It could even be made part of a FC setting to indicate they demand this feature to be active.

Casual groups wont care about it, and just leave it off that way, but dedicated groups will demand everyone to agree. And in any roulette or matchmade event it never will be active.

To assist a bit towards the player themselve, they could see their values at the end of a dungeon, but obviously cannot compare those to teammates, only their other dungeons. And this isnt realy a very effective way to measure your performance towards others, but can still give some indication. Because dungeons can have varying clearing times depending on your teammates. So these stats might simply just end up being the total values and not value over time. A quite pointless value to me, but im not the one that is going to care much about those stats anyway. For me it simply comes down to: How many attempts did we need to clear it (and if we cleared it).

[Seera1024]

They can. For their own improvement. No one says they cant.

As long as they keep that to themselves.

That was to someone going why need a DPS meter at all.

[HappyHubris]

And I can counter argue that it isnt fair for people whom want to raid harder content for the sake of doing so but do to official parsing theyll get barred or bullied off a group due to toxic players using it to excuse that behavior. The minute that tool gets officially introduced I guarantee you that itll cause more problems than good. Weve seen this happen time and time again in other MMOs where the raiding scene just wanes due to toxicity. Already this entire thread is causing toxic barking from all of us. Im no saint either.

This argument works for you because you classify specific behavior as toxic. I see showing up for a raid without bothering to try and learn to play your class reasonably well as "toxic:" you're causing a group numerous enrage wipes and wasting their time. If you're someone that only has a bit of time to try to raid each week, waiting for a party finder group to assemble, getting in to the boss, and then hitting your head against the enrage over and over because DPS #4 is really underperforming is toxic to your enjoyment of the game.

Let me ask a question: if someone lies to a group about watching a video on the strat and wipes them over and over and over due to not knowing a fight they said they did, is that detrimental to the game or the raid scene? How is that different than pretending you can play your class at a raid level and then causing wipes?

[HappyHubris]

I just dont want to see parsing as an <ahem> "official" full on requirement for raiding. Its not completely necessary, it creates more harm than good for to the community but I'm not gonna stop you if you want to form hardcore groups that use them for content.

No one serious is asking that a DPS meter is mandatory for doing raid content. We just want to be able to use them and provide feedback based on them without bans.

[HappyHubris]

This only works if its optional by opt in, and cannot be forced by random people. So only in a full lobby by a vote that has been accepted by all players. It could even be made part of a FC setting to indicate they demand this feature to be active.

Casual groups wont care about it, and just leave it off that way, but dedicated groups will demand everyone to agree. And in any roulette or matchmade event it never will be active.

To assist a bit towards the player themselve, they could see their values at the end of a dungeon, but obviously cannot compare those to teammates, only their other dungeons. And this isnt realy a very effective way to measure your performance towards others, but can still give some indication. Because dungeons can have varying clearing times depending on your teammates. So these stats might simply just end up being the total values and not value over time. A quite pointless value to me, but im not the one that is going to care much about those stats anyway. For me it simply comes down to: How many attempts did we need to clear it (and if we cleared it).

No one cares about DPS in dungeons; enrages are mostly a function of extreme and savage content.

I've seen WHMs in dungeons fish for cure 1 procs or DPS who don't use their buffs or DoTs. Do I try and teach them or comment? No, because the dungeon will be over in 15 minutes and I don't play to argue.

But when there is a content with hard enrages, the ability for a group to not waste their time does not need to be put to a vote. You'll kick someone who shows up for a clear group without ever trying to learn the fight mechanics; why not kick someone that refuses to learn their class?

[Jirah]

Casual content doesn’t have DPS checks and if they do it’s too mild to notice

[Colt47]

The thing is that back in heavensward, there was a reason to have a tool to assist in figuring out how to do the best damage simply because of how complicated some of the juggling was. Anyone who played Dark Knight during HW knows exactly how crazy that gets, and most people who remember having to manage TP and also remembering to counter boss critical strikes would remember that.

The new age design they have makes damage dealing incredibly simple on the jobs they have streamlined. As long as someone is paying attention to what the new moves are they get and practices properly when leveling up, they will get better and eventually just click things into place.

The main barrier that comes into play to mastering a job is weak content.

[AmiableApkallu]

No one serious is asking that a DPS meter is mandatory for doing raid content. We just want to be able to use them and provide feedback based on them without bans.

I feel like I must be missing something here; this doesn't seem like it should be so hard.

Person A: Hey, Person B, may I offer some advice that might help us clear this DPS check?

Person B: [Yes/No]

Person A: [If yes, offer constructive advice. If no, then the DPS meter isn't going to help.]

[Snorky]

No one serious is asking that a DPS meter is mandatory for doing raid content. We just want to be able to use them and provide feedback based on them without bans.

This is why I am against DPS meters being freely used by anyone. I didn't ask you to monitor my DPS I didn't ask you to make sure I was doing optimal DPS. I don't want you to stick your nose in my business period. Because this is exactly how it starts, oh I just want to help give friendly advice, then it turns sour given by those who want to use the information just to beat it over someone else's head. Yes there are those people. It's not anyone else's job to monitor what I or any other player is doing unless you agree to it in advance. I think the developers are smart enough to know there are people out there who are just nasty and would use information to beat up other players. After 8 years I doubt there will be a change in their stance or SE policy. Beating a dead horse here.

[Saraide]

This is why I am against DPS meters being freely used by anyone. I didn't ask you to monitor my DPS I didn't ask you to make sure I was doing optimal DPS. I don't want you to stick your nose in my business period. Because this is exactly how it starts, oh I just want to help give friendly advice, then it turns sour given by those who want to use the information just to beat it over someone else's head. Yes there are those people. It's not anyone else's job to monitor what I or any other player is doing unless you agree to it in advance. I think the developers are smart enough to know there are people out there who are just nasty and would use information to beat up other players. After 8 years I doubt there will be a change in their stance or SE policy. Beating a dead horse here.

Well to be fair, your performance in a group isnt just your own business, it's everyone's business.