So this game has dps checks but we can't talk about our dps in game?

[ForteNightshade]

Going to be frank, Savage is both amazing content and also the most questionable in terms of community health. It feels like a necessary thing to help justify crafting or pushing crafted high iLvL gear. The only reason I don't like it is due to the hard enrage feeling really artificial or out of place, which thankfully the game does away with by saying it's all in our characters head and not really part of the game world.

There's really only two ways to put a limit on a fight: Either a hard enrage that pulls the ground out from under the players, or finite resources at the players disposal to overcome the challenge. The latter would definitely be better than a dps check since typically a finite resource is accountable in the game world itself. It's very easy to tell if someone runs out of healing potions or if they run out of ammo. For DPS checks the only thing someone can do is check if people are getting damage downs or die repeatedly unless they have a tool to utilize for it. Plus even if someone did have a tool, the information needed to figure out why said person didn't perform can be a myriad of reasons.

The issue with entirely "soft enrages" like you described is the DPS themselves instantly have less value. In fact, it'd be better to bring a third healer or even tank simply because that gives you a larger pool to work from. Couple that with the fact healer kits are already comically overpowered and they'd have to design the end mechanic AoE spam in such a way that the boss just keeps dealing increasingly higher damage ala Brute Justice. At which point, what's the difference? After a certain number of stacks, Brute Justice simply deals too much damage for the healers to handle, thereby being a hard enrage. While a fun idea I wish they'd use more often, the novelty would inevitably wear off when every single boss has to follow the same format to ensure fights don't carry on forever.

[Daeriion_Aeradiir]

there are no dps checks for anything below extreme. You can autoattack normal raid bosses and regular trials to death.

False.

Ruby Weapon part 2 has a full fight dps check. Very lenient one, but it has an actual hard enrage. I got to see it plenty of times in my trial roulettes around 5.2.
A huge amount of the Hard mode trials from Ramuh+ have a dps check in the form of an add phase, where you must kill everything before a gauge fills to 100, or adds dont die and its effectively a wipe due to vulns.

Ramuh (must kill adds or auto wipe)
Shiva (must kill adds or auto wipe)
Steps of Faith: need I say more about the controversy surrounding the instance and why it was nerfed?
Ravana (must kill adds or Bloody fuller becomes unlivable due to vulns)
Bismark (hard enrage if snake adds dont die, or if fight drags on long enough for island to shatter from Bismark's attacks)
Thordan (Knight phase will auto wipe if it hits 100 due to player deaths, or if it drags on for too long due to the gauge slowly increasing over time)
Nidhogg (adds must die or auto wipe)
All three warring triad (adds must die or auto wipe)

And that's just the HW hard mode trials, not extreme. Every single SB trial sans lakshmi has the 'adds must die or wipe' clause, as do about half of the SHB ones. Just because they're lax doesn't mean they're not dps checks. Dps checks are everywhere in FF14, in all difficulties. There's even a dps check in the 83 dungeon. Every HW+ alliance raid also has a dps check in some way or another. Dun Scaith first boss has an actual hard enrage when the entire ship is covered in doom squares, making it impossible to dodge his death IV cast.

Titania was insanely notorious for this because hers was actually tight for the skill level of the average FF14 player, leading to tons of add phase wipes in the DF. And before they added echo so you can brute force it with enough wipes, you'd more often than not either have to decide to keep throwing yourself at it in the hopes people would stop dying/that SMN doing HW level damage would suddenly get a clue, or take the 30min penalty.

[Shuuli]

So, I know what to do. Introduce more Heal checks with the dps checks like we had with Shinryu extreme

[MsQi]

You can't be serious and start whining about how there's the possibility of people harassing you over a parser or whatever scenarios y'all like to imagine in your heads when it rarely if ever happens in game. You know what does happen in game? People who don't know how to press their 1-2-3 combo or quadruple weave their gcds. There's no way that open communication about trying to kill the boss and making sure everyone is up to par is worse than the player who still doesn't know their rotation at level 90 and doesn't even have the right food buff on. And often you don't even need to bring third party programs into the conversation. When I look at the aggro list and see the dragoon below the summoner, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that someone doesn't know how to play their class.

Heard of Ventrilo? Oh that's old.... uh heard of Discord? Honestly knowing the numbers doesn't help, unless you're in one of those groups that's looking to toss people out for underperforming. Not enough DPS? so... Try Harder? You're not gonna learn a new rotation on the fly, but you may discover one. Improvement comes from familiarity with the fight and learning the flow. As you get more comfortable in the battle your performance improves. When you achieve flow the real gains come. Since few people understand that I don't bother with the high end stuff in this game.

[Bobby66]

Wouldn’t a score card system still lead to a third party tracker like LOL has that will pull up all the info?

[Deceptus]

As you probably fail to consider a tank is one of the higher on aggro but lower in dps…

Tanks should be 1 / 2 dps should be 3 or 4 unless their is major overhealing being done.

Damage equals aggro for dps. Decent way to tell who is doing decent damage is by the aggro table.

[Michieltjuhh]

If the boss is hitting enrage, despite nobody dying (which sadly happens a decent amount of early tier Savage), it means people aren't pressing their buttons. And I'm not going to throw the entire combat log into Excel to find out who it is and at the end of it probably still get accused of using third party software... which Excel technically is anyway. Just silently kick the underperformers, there's no winning here, because they're afraid of toxicity while the real toxicity is those underperformers trying to do content they're not skilled enough for.

Heard of Ventrilo? Oh that's old.... uh heard of Discord? Honestly knowing the numbers doesn't help, unless you're in one of those groups that's looking to toss people out for underperforming. Not enough DPS? so... Try Harder? You're not gonna learn a new rotation on the fly, but you may discover one. Improvement comes from familiarity with the fight and learning the flow. As you get more comfortable in the battle your performance improves. When you achieve flow the real gains come. Since few people understand that I don't bother with the high end stuff in this game.

You're totally right! I'll go and learn a new rotation for the underperforming people in the raid right away! Wait, this only applies when I'm the one that's performing bad? Well, I'll be damned, a flaw in this solid advice.

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

Use the thing anyway, determine the free loaders, kick them without saying a word. "Difference in Playstyle". Simple.

And then people wonder why they are kicked, surprise surprise!

[Theox]

This is especially funny to me, because savage raids have dps checks in a form of enrage, basically meaning that you need as much dmg as possible, so you'll get the best gear and people with the best gear, so that's one point of exclusion, the second one being how good the person playing is (their rotation, how good they know the mechanics, etc), so the game is basically saying that you need to be good and have good gear to be able to complete a dungeon, but at the same time you can't outright say nothing about it in game because it's toxic. This kind of uncertain flirting is hilarious to me and the fact that people see nothing wrong with it is even funnier.

I'm not taking sides and saying that something is ok/not ok, just food for thought I guess.

[YukikoKurosawa]

We do have Stone, Sea, and Sky trials. But how accurate those are to gauge your ability, let alone in savages (as there are no savage versions), I don't know.