Non instanced dungeons. An under-looked game design method in XI

[Hachi-Roku]

Originally Posted by MoonKeeperr View Post
i agree also, i remember my first day in FFXI i was so overtaken by how the sky looked and there was birds flying, and my first trip to Bastok at a lower level was fun.

????

Originally Posted by Hachi-Roku View Post
I call BS, Bastok was never fun.

?????????????

[Ruisu]

While I do believe that instanced content is the way to go in terms of gear/etc. Open world content should have a strong standing in the game as well, I agree. It was one of the things that helped XI feel so vibrant.

Also, I would personally like to see some instances where you can just waltz in with no prereqs/timers/party limits/etc. Make it feel like it's part of the world, but allow us to farm gear/items/etc in there without someone else camping that location. Nothing major either, just a few dungeons here and there. I don't have anything against instancing, just the way it's handled in this game is pretty dull.

Ramblings aside, I agree with the OP. Open world content should exist, and the game should not be an instancefest like Guild Wars is.

[Jynx]

I don't think anyone dissagrees that Instanced content has a place in the game, it's mainly just what degree of that is acceptable for people. I think XI had it pretty solid with each instanced area usually having a open world zone infront of it (without being able to teleport past it thank you!)

[Gramul]

????

Originally Posted by Hachi-Roku View Post
I call BS, Bastok was never fun.

?????????????

Journey.
Destination.
Different things.

And shut your trap about Batok.

[Seif]

Hachi Rochu calm down.

MoonKeeperr said the trip to Bastok was fun and I completely agree. I remember my first trip to Bastok from Windy at low levels too. Without maps I had to ask directions from pretty much everyone I saw. It was more fun than most of the quests in any FF game and kept me up all night until I finally made it to the waterfall bridge.

The trip to pretty much anywhere was amazing and especially for those who started XI late in it's lifetime like I did.

Because it was so hard to find a group it was a true blessing that there was so much freedom in doing the quests. Outwitting the game with your job's abilities and doing things solo was great because it wasn't tied to levecards or arbitary timers or member limits.

There was also a lot of emergent gameplay moments that this provided. Stepping into a sudden NM in a dungeon or rescuing a stranger from a certain death. For re-playability freedom is the ultimate card that keeps the interest of a dungeon interesting and makes people explore the history and detail in it.

Well at least to me it is. 0,00001% drop-rates might do the same thing but is that really a better solution?

[Hulan]

I have felt for a while that one of the largest things that is missing from FFXIV is the "journey", by it metaphorical or literal. In a way, it has matured before it's time. In FFXI, after you had played for a few years, you could easily zip around wherever you wanted. But those few years where you could not were important; they allowed you to grow with the world. In FFXIV, there is no maturation period, any content is a mere moment's walk away.

The problem is, I am not all together convinced that the current MMO population could support that style of play anymore. There is an expectation that "fun" content be accessible on a moment's notice. Which, in a way, isn't wrong. Enjoyable content should be easily accessed. FFXIV, though, seems to have forgotten that the journey can be just as fun as the destination. Long, grueling hikes though zones is not fun. But long, exciting ones can be. The balance is incredibly fine.

Another thing that SE did that contributed to the uniqueness of FFXI's world was how it was woven together. There are any number of zones that are not just connected to another zone, but woven into it, part of a while. Temple of Uggalepih comes to mind immediately. The temple was not some vestigial appendage of Yhoator Jungle, it was a vital part of it.

[Hachi-Roku]

And shut your trap about Batok.

never, always lastok

---


Also,

Journey.
Destination.
Different things.

MoonKeeperr said the trip to Bastok was fun and I completely agree. I remember my first trip to Bastok from Windy at low levels too. Without maps I had to ask directions from pretty much everyone I saw. It was more fun than most of the quests in any FF game and kept me up all night until I finally made it to the waterfall bridge.

The trip to pretty much anywhere was amazing and especially for those who started XI late in it's lifetime like I did.

If this is what you mean to say, say it! It gets the point across better than vague bolding and italics.

That being said, I have nothing against enjoying the journey to Bastok. Or the journey to and from anywhere in XI, really. I soloed reaching the various COR unlock spots as a solo 40-ish WHM, saved only by my castings of Sneak/Invis and still got eaten by chigoes/Imps a few times. Getting the key, working around to Arrapagio Reef- it was a real pain in the butt but dangit I was determined to become a pirate. O'course, then they make the cooldown on the ??? Lamian Fang Key one day instead of a conquest week, and I became an old curmudgeon talking about how 'kids these days have it so easy.'

I told my cousin about this, of the hoops I had to jump through to clear some of this stuff solo, and he just gave me a strange look, bewildered that I would go through so much trouble.

I have felt for a while that one of the largest things that is missing from FFXIV is the "journey", by it metaphorical or literal. In a way, it has matured before it's time. In FFXI, after you had played for a few years, you could easily zip around wherever you wanted. But those few years where you could not were important; they allowed you to grow with the world. In FFXIV, there is no maturation period, any content is a mere moment's walk away.

Now, I didn't start playing FFXI until far later in its life (after most things but before WotG was finished and before Abyssea even started). And this is more or less true: I looked forward to landmarks such as beating Magicite so I could get my airship pass. That was something I could look and work forward to, and when I finally did it, I immediately got an airship to nowhere just to ride it. Then there was restricted access to some areas that was annoying, like gathering Kazham keys.

Genuine question, with no malice: if SE had tied anima usage to progress in the main story quest, maybe something alongside the Echo, would it be seen in a less negative light?

That would have never ever happened with any kind of probability though, as even under Tanaka the focus of XIV was to be able to allow solo players to (a) progress in some manner and not be as reliant on groups while (b) under time constraints, which is what guildleves are really about- bitesized bumps of XP that you can do while alone and get XP/gil out of it. To really do that, you need to get to XP camps quickly.

An example a friend of mine brings up about travel time is the Einherjar event in XI: it would never start on time due to people missing the ferry and having to wait. SE wanted to eliminate that, and they did- until we have to assault Castrum Novum in Mor Dhona. I should go find out how far away from the camp it is.

[Teakwood]

So many fond memories of sitting around in Aht Urhgan with my Tidal Talisman waiting for the stragglers so I could teleport them straight to Nashmau so my LS leader didn't die of apoplexy when they took the damn late ferry.

(The worst part was if you were reasonably fearless and clever you could travel to Einherjar through Alzadaal; it was actually a really cool shortcut, and I think a really good example of the things that owned about XI's world design. If you knew the world and the shortcuts, if you had put a lot of time into unlocking all the means of teleportation, you could get /anywhere in Vana'diel/ inside of seven minutes. I prided myself ridiculously on my ability to do such and had more than a few races between myself and friends as to who could get to some obscure but immediately recognisable location first.)

I mean, I'm looking forward to tromping through Mor Dhona on the way to the imperial castrum, but then again I've got a recognisable masochistic streak.

[Gramul]

never, always lastok

Shut up filthy Elzen!

If this is what you mean to say, say it!

He totally did.

[...]my first trip to Bastok at a lower level was fun.

Dunno how you can be any clearer than that.

[Orophin]

I thought this was going to be another post about reintroducing world HNMs, but it was actually a pleasant read. I feel they did a pretty good job designing the areas in FF11. They SHOULD be able to accomplish the same being that the maps are being redone to have definitive zone lines between areas. (non-seamless) It just depends on whether they will embrace that ideology or not.