Non instanced dungeons. An under-looked game design method in XI

[Tupsi]

I agree, Final Fantasy XI probably has one of the most amazing world designs I've seen in an MMO and it was the tiny details that really made it stand out from the rest -- It wasn't fully living or breathing in the sense that it dynamically changed, but open world dungeons made it feel more alive if anything. I hope with 2.0 they don't go fully instanced route and at least strike a balance.

No, I'm sure those people played the game too. You don't dictate how someone plays the game.

For as long as I've lurked I notice you do almost nothing but stalk her posts just to attack everything she writes -- this makes you petty especially since she had a perfectly reasonable point -- I'm going to assume you never played FFXI or gotten very far but people in that (and most online games) only care for one thing: Loot, so in order to fully experience something as another poster said you have to really pay attention to the world around you and the story & lore, so she wasn't dictating how someone played the game, it's called common sense -- if you don't read every page of a book or watch every scene of a movie, how can you say you really experienced it?

[Ruisu]

Yet if you ask anyone who truly played FFXI

hurp durp hurrr I played a game more than you and you can only nostalgia over a game if you've played it as much as me.

Stop saying that. I never really touched any of XI's endgame and I still find it incredibly memorable. There's no need to act as though you're superior to the average FFXI player.

[Azurymber]

FFXI had the most amazing world of any MMO i have ever played. Not only that, but every zone had tons of cool places with different mobs to level on.

Leveling beastmaster surpassed any experience I have had in any other game. Having to seek out new camps, find secret caves, create my own camps (before they made mobs respawn) and survive, always ensured I was having a lot of fun.

I remember getting to Lufaise Medows for the first time, and how amazing it felt being one of the few on the servers to make it there. Exploring the sanctuary of zi'tah for the first time as a low level whitemage trying to sneak-invis past everything and eventually making it through Ro'Maeve to the hall of the gods. Finding out there are sewers underneath sandoria and windurst, and much more.

In FFXIV on the other hand, within the first few days of open beta I had pretty well gone -everywhere- in the world, including all the atherytes, all the areas with high level mobs, etc. I literally ran around trying to find cool unique things. Meaning i covered pretty well 100% of the world (running to every cave, every corner, etc).

I ended up making 2 exploration guides for FFXIV.
The first was during open beta:
http://ffxiv.zam.com/forum.html?foru...493176341076#3

The second was in may of 2011 (1 year ago)
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...rets-of-Eorzea

Overall, I was really disappointed. I honestly hope 2.0 captures what FFXI was able to achieve. However, from the pics they have shown it looks like 2.0 will be a bunch of small interconnected instanced-like zones. Which honestly looks really disappointing.

[DarthTaru]

Excellent OP. Very insightful. Maybe i'm enjoying it all the more because it's in the same spirit of my lodestone blog from this morning. I'm just in an FFXI sorta mood lately.

If FFXIV becomes all about instanced raids i'm going to be utterly disappointed. I hate to say it because I dedicate a lot of time to the game, but if they intend to make a Final Fantasy WoW i'll quit. The wonderful thing about open world NMs and open world HNMs and open world everything, is that the result of open world is a living, breathing environment. It gives zones meaning and depth and purpose. They become somethings domain rather than just an obstacle to suffer on the way to an instance. Who would have fond (or at least entertaining) memories of Dragon's Aery if it was just the entrance to an instance where you fight Fafnir behind closed doors?

Notice you never hear any epic stories or fond memories told about the KS99 Wyrm but hear them by the hundreds about peoples wars against Nidhogg.

This might be getting a little off your original topic but I think it's still all within the same vein.

I read a lot of the posts on these forums and if Yoshi P is designing the game around them I worry about the future state and direction of this game. We'll see what 2.0 brings.

[Quesse]

FFXI had the most amazing world of any MMO i have ever played. Not only that, but every zone had tons of cool places with different mobs to level on.

Leveling beastmaster surpassed any experience I have had in any other game. Having to seek out new camps, find secret caves, create my own camps (before they made mobs respawn) and survive, always ensured I was having a lot of fun.

I remember getting to Lufaise Medows for the first time, and how amazing it felt being one of the few on the servers to make it there. Exploring the sanctuary of zi'tah for the first time as a low level whitemage trying to sneak-invis past everything and eventually making it through Ro'Maeve to the hall of the gods. Finding out there are sewers underneath sandoria and windurst, and much more.

In FFXIV on the other hand, within the first few days of open beta I had pretty well gone -everywhere- in the world, including all the atherytes, all the areas with high level mobs, etc. I literally ran around trying to find cool unique things. Meaning i covered pretty well 100% of the world (running to every cave, every corner, etc).

Overall, I was really disappointed. I honestly hope 2.0 captures what FFXI was able to achieve. However, from the pics they have shown it looks like 2.0 will be a bunch of small interconnected instanced-like zones. Which honestly looks really disappointing.

I was BST in FFXI and that was my experience as well. I had a blast. Toraimarai Canal was one of my favorite zones for BST leveling and I remember how much fun it was to do the quest to gain entrance the back way. Such a wealth of little discoveries waiting to be made. Also challenges. Soloing or Duoing certain NMs. All that magic is completely missing in FFXIV, replaced really with one activity - the instance grind. Grind an instance. Repeat. That's all there is. Probably why I haven't played much in the last 3 weeks.

[ThePatriarch]

Leveling beastmaster surpassed any experience I have had in any other game.

This is an experience, that I doubt will ever come close to being touched by any other game.

I too enjoyed it like nothing else, ever.

[TheVedis]

I always liked a dungeon before the dungeon type feel.

Im hoping the raid in 1.23 is INSIDE the imperial stronghold, make you fight your way to it...

[Prats_Summmons]

i hope the content of final fantasy xiv equals final fantasy xi in the 2.0, for me now content final fantasy xiv is very bad, please SE change soon content

[Alfortis]

Hello everyone and thanks for all the reply's and insight. Just to make sure I give the right message, this is not an anti-dungeon raid thread. I love dungeon raids in MMOs and I hope they never get rid of them. Its good content because it prevents the game from being repetitive and gives a fast pace feeling to the game. I am for raids along with other content that will give a different element to the game such as an airship rail shooter (like in kingdom hearts 2) and optional risk-reward boss fights.

I see what others are saying though. If the dungeons do become the central point of the game then the game will not have a significant identity. Without a games identity to back it up, it will be perceived as just another mmo game. Once the games is perceived as "just some mmo", it is no different than a box that just says cereal on it.

[Oreth]

Having played FFXI since early 2005 I can agree whole heartily with what people want and what they are looking for. I think its apparent that this game just lacks on the 90% of the levels when compared to not just FFXI but majority of other MMOs.

I think the biggest problem is what people got out of FFXI they simply wont ever get that back again, its something i think iv come to realize. It was my first MMO so it had that effect on me, i was amazed, loved connecting with people from all around the world. Prior to that all my online play was from FPS games so that was very linear in itself. Im talking early days too like the MSN Gaming zone etc. FFXI didn't give me that linear feeling i could do what i wanted when i wanted. This isnt me big upping FFXI btw because it certainly had its flaws. I honestly dont think its possible for the majority of us to capture that again, we might get close and hopefully SE can deliver but that true feeling of accomplishment, friendship, exploration and overall joy is just bound to the first dedicated experience to the genre. Thats why i think so much of the community still hang on to WoW, many just dont want to let go.

Thats just my 2c... Maybe its because im older but i dont think i will get that feeling back no matter what they do.