Here's how to fix TBN

[NeoDivinity]

Unless of course it's a situation where TBN would normally break but somebody mitigated too much and it just misses the mark of breaking...which happens more often than you'd think. It never feels good to use TBN in a situation where it would normally break only for it to not break due to somebody else. A DPS loss caused by somebody overcompensating makes TBN frustrating as hell to use.

Have this happened on P4 normal last night, had TBN on with Rampart on the Tank Buster, but sage or sch(dont remember) also shielded me TBN didnt broke, we laughed and now im statistics. anyway thats not the point as i said, it a very nieche scenario where it wont break, since on every savage tb it will 99% time break no matter what.

Really hard to make a change on TBN that pleases everybody, but right now it pleases no one

[Crater]

Unless of course it's a situation where TBN would normally break but somebody mitigated too much and it just misses the mark of breaking...which happens more often than you'd think. It never feels good to use TBN in a situation where it would normally break only for it to not break due to somebody else. A DPS loss caused by somebody overcompensating makes TBN frustrating as hell to use.

That's not an "unless" - that's exactly what I'm talking about. If the difference between TBN breaking or not breaking is a spare Holos or Aquaveil, that's an inappropriate place to be using it, full stop. You are, definitionally, taking so little damage that your healer will be keeping you healed without giving up a single thing, simply by doing the mandatory healing required to keep the party alive.

There is absolutely no reason to change anything about how the skill works based on that situation, because using the skill in that situation is player error on your part.

[Valknut]

Anyone suggesting TBN have increased CD is missing every problem DRK has, and that is dungeon pulling. A longer TBN CD is going to make pulling so much worse, were talking about 2 TBNs a pull compared to 3.

[Garlan]

I'm going to echo this sentiment one last time before I give up - TBN does not need changing in the slightest, as it accomplishes exactly what is has always promised to do - be a single, chunky shield for a single hit. In my experience, TBN has never failed to break, even against pathetic dungeon TB's. If TBN needs to be a changed, I'd welcome a small, negligible HoT or Dark Art's activating a self-heal, but that would be about it.

Oblation is the skill we need to convince Square Enix to change. Oblation is the skill that has the potential to buff our defensive hit where it is the weakest (frequent physical damage and dungeon trash). TBn has a purpose in our defensive kit, whereas Oblation is more or less...there. It is definitely not a wasted defensive and serves a purpose, its just relatively weak and could use some attention to help refine DRK's kit to be a bit more robust.

[Shurrikhan]

First of all, delete Oblation.

Once you activate TBN, it will proc Dark Arts right out of the gate. Once the shield breaks, you will then get 10% damage mitigation for the next 10 seconds. It still won't be as powerful defensively compared to the other tanks, but the damage will make up for it every time. There will never be a reason to not use TBN with this change.

You could make it a level 82 trait to upgrade it, or you could change it entirely. Also I'm not sure if this buff would constitute a longer cooldown or not. Thoughts would be appreciated.

You'd then have DRK's EW trait essentially grant up to 40 seconds per minute (67% coverage) of 10% mitigation, as opposed to the up to 16% coverage of the others' traits.

Put more simply, your suggestion must be compared against Knight's Resolve (10% miti, 4s) and Knight's Benediction for PLD (1000p HoT), Catharsis of Corundum (900p excog) and Clarity of Corundum (15% miti, 4s) for GNB, and Stem the Tide (10% miti, 4s) and Stem the Flow (400p shield) for WAR.

Does an almost 50% increase in coverage of that mitigation fall below the value of those 2 self-heals/shields per minute?

Moreover, given how DRK uses TBN, is that where you most want to apply, inseparably, that added defensive value per minute?

[Weetzlo]

You'd then have DRK's EW trait essentially grant up to 40 seconds per minute (67% coverage) of 10% mitigation, as opposed to the up to 16% coverage of the others' traits.

Put more simply, your suggestion must be compared against Knight's Resolve (10% miti, 4s) and Knight's Benediction for PLD (1000p HoT), Catharsis of Corundum (900p excog) and Clarity of Corundum (15% miti, 4s) for GNB, and Stem the Tide (10% miti, 4s) and Stem the Flow (400p shield) for WAR.

Does an almost 50% increase in coverage of that mitigation fall below the value of those 2 self-heals/shields per minute?

Moreover, given how DRK uses TBN, is that where you most want to apply, inseparably, that added defensive value per minute?

You're not going apples:apples here. You have to look at the whole ability, not JUST the EW upgrade. Holy Sheltron lasts 8 seconds. Only 2 came as an EW upgrade but considering the first 6 seconds came at level 35 where DRK has 0 parallel so it has to be ability:ability not just EW parts to EW parts. It's not like I can just use the 2 seconds of block and 15% for 4 seconds individually. Sheltron lasts 8 seconds and charges in 20 seconds of melee uptime. 40% uptime. Wilford's 67% is out of line with that but considering all the other tanks have half their uptime be at double strength, having more uptime but weaker wouldn't be the craziest thing

[Shurrikhan]

You're not going apples:apples here. You have to look at the whole ability, not JUST the EW upgrade.

I'm recommending you compare the pre-expansion kits to the pre-expansion kits and the post-expansion kits to the post-expansion kits. Call it crackerjacks:crackerjacks for all I care.

There is no point in overbuffing DRK's lv70-81 kit to make up for a lv82-90 comparative weakness. Buff only the part that needs buffs.

(Yes, the whole thing could use correction, beyond capacity buffs alone, because DRK is a mess, but that's out of our scope here.)

[Weetzlo]

I'm recommending you compare the pre-expansion kits to the pre-expansion kits and the post-expansion kits to the post-expansion kits. Call it crackerjacks:crackerjacks for all I care.

There is no point in overbuffing DRK's lv70-81 kit to make up for a lv82-90 comparative weakness. Buff only the part that needs buffs.

(Yes, the whole thing could use correction, beyond capacity buffs alone, because DRK is a mess, but that's out of our scope here.)

But in the situation he presented it would be level 80 PLD has 30% uptime on block, DRK has TBN exactly same as before. Level 90 PLD has 40% uptime on block, with half of that stacked with 15% resolve, DRK has a potential 67% uptime on 10% mit based on shields breaking on cooldown. Overbuffing the 70 kit not on the table.

[Shurrikhan]

....

You're still overcomplicating this slightly.

That's not to say that you're overthinking this. Rather, you're pushing into the question concerns that are best addressed separately.

Also, if you want us to "look at" and adjust "the whole ability" --and I do mean you, as that is quoting you, not the OP -- that means adjusting not just what's added at lv82, but also what comes before.

DRK's defensive kit at 70-81 should be competitive with the other tanks' 70-81. 82-86, competitive with other tanks' 82-86. 87-90... you guessed it. You don't fix problems with the lv82 skills' parity by adjusting the level 70 kit, nor do you, say, fix LD, by buffing TBN after level 82. You adjust what's added over the span in question.

Meanwhile, fixating on the coverage of percentile mitigation without some way of considering its value against potency is just running in circles. You'd need to pick a benchmark:

Percentile mitigation will be balanced around defensive (curative or absorptive) potency by selecting a particular 'standard' of DTPS (damage taken per second) likely to occur over a given span.

If we take a higher DTPS standard, such as Expert Roulette double-pulls, then potency hold up against percentile mitigation even in those situations while potency is superior if the DTPS is lower than that standard and percentiles are superior if the DTPS is higher.

So again, you pick a situation as your standard, such that percentile mitigation over 8 seconds of that situation should nullify as much damage as the potencies would absorb or heal.

Given that standard, would the 40 seconds per minute of 10% mitigation that the OP has suggested be traited atop TBN exceed the value of the 8-9.6 seconds per minute of mitigation and potencies of its competing traits? That's it.

I'd need a standard by which to find pre-active-mitigation DTPS and determine whether that the suggested buff would be overkill. Ideally, I'd like a rationale, too, as to why that standard would make sense (e.g., because it renders more similar mitigation+healing over time between jobs and therefore seems the more likely intended balancing point). But that's the whole of it. It's either noticeably greater than its competing trait's values and may be OP, noticeably lower and UP, or it's roughly balanced. But the best way to figure that out is simply to compare this suggested trait against the other traits. DRK's lack of self-sustain, etc., should be addressed separately as such, not as part of its lv82 trait.

[Aegis_Harvey]

Making TBN free or guaranteeing the DA proc will just slowly slide the DRK rotation meta to slamming your TBN button whenever its recast timer is up. DRK has big periods of being pretty slow in-between openers and burst phases, it seems wasteful to me to turn TBN into another button you'd never have to think about again.