[Suggestion] Improving the new targeting system

[kukurumei]

How are you going to switch between skills in the action bar? XI had menu based combat, XIV doesn't. That's one of the reasons why it can not be replicated.

Umm left and right? and macros? That's what we're doing anyway, same as FF11. Only difference is that we have 12345 now instead of selecting menus. At least we could talk in FF11.

FF11 UI was no award winner, but it was efficient once you learned it, Keyboard(never touch the mouse) or gamepad. FF14 is a slower, crappier, and buggier version of it.

If you want a great interface for KB/M fine, we have lot of dozens and dozens of them out there to imitate and enhance. Just like FF11 in terms of the middle ground between KB/M and gamepad was #1.

Right now all I'm hearing from you is the mad scientist, but without the scientist part. No one is going to wait for the scientist part to actually show itself.

Everyone likes to hear the word "original" but it's not practical, especially after the 18th failure. How about originally failing.

[Soukyuu]

How are you going to switch between skills in the action bar? XI had menu based combat, XIV doesn't. That's one of the reasons why it can not be replicated.

I think it's pretty clear that the up/down/left/right keys would only used to switch targets while, err, targeting? It doesn't stop you from switching between skills and/or navigating through a menu.

choose target->select skill->use skill->select skill->use skill->cancel->change target->select skill....

i see no problems.

[Shadowskill]

The target system they put in place seems like a nice balance, only bad side from how they implemented it would be the way of selecting between the modes.

It is a very solid targeting system though, allowing to cast passive abilities on party members while engaged in battle.

[Betelgeuzah]

left/right =NPC

How are you going to switch between skills in the action bar?

Umm left and right?

Excellent thinking.

(never touch the mouse)

2011 called, and he says this kind of crap is not acceptable in his time and age for a PC MMO. So,

FF11 UI was efficient once you learned it

It was crappy until you got used to it over-time. FF11 was not "middleground". It was a console UI designed for gamepads and the keyboard part was tacked on at the last second without any kind of thinking for mouse or PC-UI as a whole.

Ask any PC player whether they prefer menu based UI or not. XI's UI was crap, and XIV is attempting to break away from that mold. Sorry to tell you your ideals do not work in reality.

[kukurumei]

Excellent thinking.



2011 called, and he says this kind of crap is not acceptable in his time and age for a PC MMO. So,



It was crappy until you got used to it over-time. FF11 was not "middleground". It was a console UI designed for gamepads and the keyboard part was tacked on at the last second without any kind of thinking for mouse or PC-UI as a whole.

Ask any PC player whether they prefer menu based UI or not. XI's UI was crap, and XIV is attempting to break away from that mold. Sorry to tell you your ideals do not work in reality.

Umm you do realize FF11 up/down/eft/right menu selection is the same as FF14..only FF11 has well...hierarchy to everything.

That we have Extended keyboards and gampads with analogs. Not to mention select and non selected gives completely different situations.

Currently: non-selected, left right target select selected, left/right skills.
tab 12345 also usable as well as f890

Then we have the fact Left and right arrow keys is not 4/6 num keys nor are they 4 and 6 action keys. Lots of mapping potentials.

Same with gamepad left and right pad keys are not left and analog keys nor left and right view keys.

FF11 has years and years to refine its controls to perfection for its medium.

And any FF11 kb users can out play your kb/m even if you had wow interfaces, and don't need vent to communicate. That was how effective it was to play in FF11 kb without sacrificing the console UI.

One handed playing in FF11 was/is something of an understatement, that was crazy effective in typing and battling and walking.

Sure it lacked drag and drop, copy and paste, point and drag, asdf, etc. But it that's the price you play for mult platform.

Anyone who disses FF11-s keyboard mapping seriously needs to wake up and smell the non corporal tunnel syndrome hands. One handed playing owns!

the overriding point being, show me something that works, not something that "may work". And SE failed. If they can't match FF11, how can they hope to succeed it.

Time is ticking as they say.

There are still simple things still lacking that should stupidly be there, via FF11 "been there done that"
ex:
Up/down = inventory selecting
Left/right = page scrolling
cancel cancel = full screen log
esc esc = buff selection

list goes on.

[Betelgeuzah]

I think it's pretty clear that the up/down/left/right keys would only used to switch targets while, err, targeting? It doesn't stop you from switching between skills and/or navigating through a menu.

You would do both at the same time if they share the same input method. You think this is np?

You are always "targeting" something when in an encounter.

[Soukyuu]

You would do both at the same time if they share the same input method. You think this is np?

as I wrote in my example, no, you wouldn't. There is a thing called "mode". When you are in "target changing"-mode, you are not able to choose skills. By choosing a target, you switch to "skill select"-mode. By cancelling skill selection you switch back to target selection. By cancelling that you leave targeting mode.

It is not any different from the targeting system we have now, and unless you are a) not reading what I write properly or b) trolling me, you should see it too.

[Betelgeuzah]

It is not any different from the targeting system we have now, and unless you are a) not reading what I write properly or b) trolling me, you should see it too.

Yeah, I thought you were still going on about replicating XI's targeting system. I know that the current system can use improvements, but replicating XI is not the way to do it.

Doesn't up/down in the current system change the target mode though? How would that work then?

[Soukyuu]

Doesn't up/down in the current system change the target mode though? How would that work then?

Well what pressing up/down currently does (as far as I understood it), is changing the targetting mode. So you press up to switch to "enemy only" mode, then choose your target, attack, but have to switch back to "party/ally only" mode to heal. This could lead to confusion in heated battles, for example.

With the proposed change, you wouldn't have to change modes anymore, just press up/down to change target to the nearest allied target or left/right to change target to the nearest enemy target.

[yukikaze_yanagi]

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...argeting-Modes
from the improvements section