Current State of ENDWALKER DNC

[Raven2014]

Let's get to the chase: DNC feels underwhelming and bloat.

Uh ... if DNC feel bloat for you ... you will need a much stronger word for more than half the other classes in the game.

[justinhuang]

Since they reduced the potency of the AOE attacks there is actually very few occasions outside dungeon mob pulls when I actually use AOEs at all. It is just not worth it. It is faster to dps enemies one by one honestly.

You can no longer use your AOEs from 2 target as we used to.

I also have no idea why we have improvisation. Very few times can I use it and even then it feels kinda underwhelming...

I hope they will do some great changes as they promised DNC will see some buffs due under performance...

Indeed, the AOE is much weaker and not as useful. You are right, other than dungeon mobs, it hard to find the right situation to use AOE flourish. I am hoping they would consider change too.

[Iscah]

Indeed, the AOE is much weaker and not as useful. You are right, other than dungeon mobs, it hard to find the right situation to use AOE flourish. I am hoping they would consider change too.

Why does there need to be a situation to use the AOE skills outside of AOE situations? It's no different to any other job that has AOE skills you never use against a single opponent.

The only difference is that DNC can combo with a mix of single and AOE attacks as the situation demands – that being primarily when the number of monsters in a dungeon pack thins out or the whole pack dies just before a boss, or the other way around if you have leftover procs after a boss or you're dealing with an adds phase.

MNK has always had the ability to have its single attacks follow AOE attacks and vice versa, and the AOE attacks are still weaker with no reason to be used in a single-target setting.

Edit: RDM is also quite similar with its dualcast mechanism meaning you can choose to cast any combination of single and AOE spells in each pair, according to the situation, but will never use your AOE skills in a boss battle. All the mages are like that really, even though the others don't have combos as such.

[gumas]

DNC should get something on later patch (and brd and mch too i think), also... dont want to be that guy but shouldnt you post this on DPS class section? lol

[justinhuang]

DNC should get something on later patch (and brd and mch too i think), also... dont want to be that guy but shouldnt you post this on DPS class section? lol

Wait? There’s different section? I didn’t know. I’ll check it out, thank you!

Also…. You did become that guy but all is good lol ������!

[Sililos]

I never could understand improv, there just isn't any good time to use it, Healers always have everyone topped up going into transitions and the rest of the time there is too much movement.
Know there's Improv Finish now, but i totally forgot that even exists, lets be real here, an ability that adds a shield.. kind of useless as a defensive when it requires up too 15 seconds to charge.

Every class feels massively bloated too me with skills that pretty much do the same thing but with niche's. Im a human with two eyes, two hands and one brain. In combat i have to focus on the battle to not stand in fire, while keeping an eye on my bars for cooldowns and procs while also pulling off my rotation, I feel like i need a second person to play.

I enjoy Dancer as a class esthetic but i don't enjoy playing it. Too be more exact, its the class i dislike playing the least.

One thing id change for Dancer is remove all 4 AOE rotation skills as they are and add a new button, "Wild step/Precision Step" or something like that, its a toggle that switches your single rotation skills to AOE and back, gets rid of some bloat without actually taking anything away.

Fan Dance III, Saber Dance, Tillana, Fan Dance IV and Starfall Dance are essentially all the same move. "Deal a small potency of damage to enemies In front of you, every enemy after the first takes 50% less damage, skill might have an additional effect, Can only be used under specific circumstances." Saber dance and Tillana at least aren't as lazily designed, one requires its own resource to cast, and the other buffs your dance partner but triggers cooldown of weaponskills.

My biggest letdown i find playing the class is trying to get on FC static or Party finder teams for Savage or harder. PL: "Yeah we dont need a Dancer, your jobs damage is too low, we wont beat enrage." DNC: "Uhh but I buff everyone elses damage." PL: "Yeah.. No.. Id rather go for a pure damage class over utility. Gotta have big numbers or you are not pulling your weight. Dancers dont pull their weight."

I know none of the Jobs in the game will be redesigned to remove the bloat and make it easier to watch my rotation AND boss mechanics at the same time, those who think more buttons = better are far too vocal and visible, and boss mechanics wont be made more synergetic with the focus required on rotations as the hardcore fights crowd are just as vocal.

Improvements to the Job i love (Dislike least) I dont see happening.
At least we might get a small potency boost so may look more appealing in the FC/Party finder example mentioned above.

please note before going into attack mode, these are my experiences, yours may differ, saying you don't have that problem doesn't help anyone. Everyone's experiences and capability's differ.
The fact "IQ" is being tossed around about ability to play as an insult now, is the perfect example that something is wrong, both mentality wise and mechanic design wise.

[Quintessa]

It's SHB all over again because DNC players thought it was crazy weak and then they got potency buffs.

[justinhuang]

I never could understand improv, there just isn't any good time to use it, Healers always have everyone topped up going into transitions and the rest of the time there is too much movement.
Know there's Improv Finish now, but i totally forgot that even exists, lets be real here, an ability that adds a shield.. kind of useless as a defensive when it requires up too 15 seconds to charge.

A very flesh out idea! Worry not, I’m not into attacking anyone. I always like it when we have an intelligent discussion

Now, let’s address the elephant of the room. Coming into Endwalker and with recent raid, we and the dev team agreed that dps for DNC is low. However, for any party that define your role base on no DNC: blacklist them. You shouldn’t party with anyone who doesn’t appreciate you or the class you play.

For having a button that change melee to aoe, something like sage eukrasia, may sounds good in principle but may fatigue players during fight in dungeons. After all, we have more ogcd to press, during burst, and with pressing a converter gcd only reminds them of old Dark art where a lot of people finds it annoying. From a Previous DrK main, now a shield healer, it was annoying to Dark art every two gcd. I could only imagine to press it for both aoe gcd.

I believe they can continue to have 4 flourish buttons with two combo gcd for regular attack. I would say if they intend to eliminate bloat further, they could always make the single flourish becoming a range aoe but I wouldn’t like that. Talia, well what can I say, maybe they want us to dance more?

Improvisation, indeed for the most party who used PF, it’s unlikely healers wouldn’t make effort to top everyone but I still think the ability itself is alright. I pop it on tank who doesn’t used CD during dungeon. I promise you, you’ll be appreciated from healers.

From the bottom of my heart I believe dev tried. However, if ffxiv proves anything is both dev and players need to work together for the better jobs. So I wouldn’t see much change for dnc until 7.0 but it’s a good idea to ponder and expect potency buff like most other class too. It may be slow and conservative for the beginning but, without a doubt, they will continue to buff as long as they sees it as weak.

[MyakotApelsia]

Yes, but you don't have to use AOE skills on single targets. You have a choice whether to spend that flourish proc on a single or AOE attack. It works exactly the same as it did pre-EW except that Flourish triggered all four skills separately instead of two choices of single or AOE.

AOE skills are always weaker per enemy than single-target skills, as far as I'm aware. I'm not sure why you need an exception here.

but that was literally not the case.

In shadowbringers, singletarget damage of AoE procs was higher than their respective 1-2 ST combo skills, and for it to work in aoe they added cleave effect to it. In 5.1, where they buffed dancer, Cascade dealt 250 potency, Rising Windmill dealt 300; Fountain dealt 300 and Bloodshower did 350. So when you used flourish, you used all 4 procs, instead of only using singletarget ones. Not using Rising Windmill and Bloodshower was just gimping your damage for no reason. If anything, there was no reason to use singletarget skills in aoe, just not other way around.

Now they turned both aoe procs into pure aoe skills that have no reason to be used in singletarget, and grouped 4 procs into 2. Flourish literally lost 2 strong gcds when its used, and Starfall Dance only compensates for one of lost gcds every 2 minutes.

Thats what people are talking about. You used both aoe and st procs on bosses, and now there is no reason to since aoe procs suck.

[Brixy]

Appreciate your advise! though I can let you know that the problem itself, as I stated, is clipping. Having multiple hotbar for different situation is a good improvisation for the current shared CD of flourish but it would not eliminate the problem itself: you need to use AOE for AOE, single for single which is not align to what 6.0 DNC intention. If you miss click to an AOE for a single enemy, not its a dps lost. During intense movement and button mash, like burst, your chance of clipping is quiet high when compares to SHB. Hence, I believe it's a bloat.

I believe we can buff the AOE to same dmg as single but dmg drop off higher. I played DNC since SHB and the 4 CD of flourish gives you room to maneuver around the field.

Seems more like a bad button layout than a problem with Dancer. Dancer has it's fair share of issues, but it's honestly one of the easiest jobs in the game to setup rotation wise. Here is my controller setup:
Single target damage on right trigger. AoE damage on left trigger. Utility/longer recasts on double trigger taps. I use this same general flow for all jobs. Single target damage is always on the right. AoE is always on the left. It's just a simple trigger switch to adjust your whole rotation.