Roleplay Party Finder Account Suspensions

[AbysmalDuck]

Okay, let’s talk about this.

This interview was THREE AND A HALF YEARS AGO. The page on Prohibited Activities was updated less than three months ago.

They have had two entire expansion cycles since Yoshi learned about FFXIV brothels and stammered through a liability-shielding answer to a radically misleading question (cybersex is decidedly different from fictional roleplay and he addresses it as a matter with potential legal ramifications rather than what is really at issue: imaginary fictional-character prostitution, something that is universally not a crime alongside other imaginary non-crimes like pretend fictional-character blackmail, make-believe tax evasion, and imaginary jaywalking). If that answer does reflect Square Enix’s stance, then as well as now, they have done an astonishingly awful job of communicating and enforcing it these past three-odd years.

I have no idea what the official stance is or what it is supposed to be. What I do know is that there are formal rules specifying what you can and cannot do in the game and there’s no section for random stuff the director said one time in an interview no one read.

Players should only ever be sanctioned for violating clearly written and publicly posted rules. Full stop. This thread started because people who believed they were acting within the rules were suspended and denied any explanation of what they did wrong. If that is happening and the best anyone can come up with is to dig up a before-times interview with Yoshi-P… I mean, that’s kind of a problem. You see why that’s a problem, right? I guess it is kind of helpful to have a sense of where his head was the first time he heard there were brothels in the game, but if GMs are actually acting on guidance that players have to puzzle out by crowdsourcing FFXIV apocrypha it should probably concern you no matter what your view on roleplay brothels.

People like you are the reason why when I worked at one of the top 5-ish publishers (who knows where they fall, but everyone has played/heard of them) that when people contacted us about bans, you get told we are escalating your request and the chat is closed, then you get a generic email not long after, then if you keep hounding, we just close the case over and over again.

The main point of what I'm saying is it doesn't matter why they banned you (generally speaking). They think you broke a rule and they have every right to ban you for it.

[kaynide]

Okay, let’s talk about this.

This interview was THREE AND A HALF YEARS AGO. The page on Prohibited Activities was updated less than three months ago.

They have had two entire expansion cycles since Yoshi learned about FFXIV brothels and stammered through a liability-shielding answer to a radically misleading question (cybersex is decidedly different from fictional roleplay and he addresses it as a matter with potential legal ramifications rather than what is really at issue: imaginary fictional-character prostitution, something that is universally not a crime alongside other imaginary non-crimes like pretend fictional-character blackmail, make-believe tax evasion, and imaginary jaywalking). If that answer does reflect Square Enix’s stance, then as well as now, they have done an astonishingly awful job of communicating and enforcing it these past three-odd years.

I have no idea what the official stance is or what it is supposed to be. What I do know is that there are formal rules specifying what you can and cannot do in the game and there’s no section for random stuff the director said one time in an interview no one read.

Players should only ever be sanctioned for violating clearly written and publicly posted rules. Full stop. This thread started because people who believed they were acting within the rules were suspended and denied any explanation of what they did wrong. If that is happening and the best anyone can come up with is to dig up a before-times interview with Yoshi-P… I mean, that’s kind of a problem. You see why that’s a problem, right? I guess it is kind of helpful to have a sense of where his head was the first time he heard there were brothels in the game, but if GMs are actually acting on guidance that players have to puzzle out by crowdsourcing FFXIV apocrypha it should probably concern you no matter what your view on roleplay brothels.

I mean, they've been pretty clear. Rules and policy don't suddenly become obsolete because they are years old. The last we heard an official answer to it was indeed three-ish years ago- until we hear otherwise, there's no reason to think the policy has changed. It's not about whether it's legal or not, it's quite simply that SE doesn't want it in their game. Their house, their rules.

[Kakure]

People like you are the reason why when I worked at one of the top 5-ish publishers (who knows where they fall, but everyone has played/heard of them) that when people contacted us about bans, you get told we are escalating your request and the chat is closed, then you get a generic email not long after, then if you keep hounding, we just close the case over and over again.

The main point of what I'm saying is it doesn't matter why they banned you (generally speaking). They think you broke a rule and they have every right to ban you for it.

I agree completely. Rereading what I wrote, it's clear I missed the mark with this one. Let me try again:

This interview has been held up as evidence SE opposes player-run brothels. I have no idea what the company’s stance is, but I trust that the GMs act in good faith and do their best to enforce the rules as written (even if I take issue with the way those rules are written now that I have read some of them). I don’t really believe they make moderation decisions by searching Google to see if the game director ever spitballed about a topic in a streamcast or interview.

My point was that the argument being made (Square Enix has been against brothels for years and players should have known better because of this one interview) should not satisfy anyone because IF this statement reflects the company’s position AND IF that position has gone effectively unenforced for three and a half years AND IF the actual rules are unclear on the matter (they explicitly allow sexual roleplay and say nothing to suggest that prostitution-themed roleplay is different), it would mean they’re moderating the game in a pretty haphazard and uneven way. Now, I do not believe this is what is happening. I am just explaining that this is the logical implication of what’s being asserted.

When I wrote this, I was frustrated with some of the snide comments in this thread. Much of what I said and the tone in which I said it was directed at the subsection of the community that is all too happy to smirk at roleplayers, wave a dismissive hand, and say “Yoshi talked about this keep your pants on and play the game lol.” My message to them (which I admittedly didn’t do a great job with) is that they might want to think a bit more about the implications of that position because if you believe the Game Masters are actually making fly-by-night decisions based on a statement from an old interview that never found articulation in the rules (which again, I do not) then you should probably be worried and outraged about how the game is being managed for your own sake.

[Kakure]

I mean, they've been pretty clear. Rules and policy don't suddenly become obsolete because they are years old. The last we heard an official answer to it was indeed three-ish years ago- until we hear otherwise, there's no reason to think the policy has changed. It's not about whether it's legal or not, it's quite simply that SE doesn't want it in their game. Their house, their rules.

You’re absolutely right that rules don’t become obsolete because they are old. An answer to an interview question isn’t quite the same thing as official rules or policies though, and it would be kind of weird if this was their position all along and they’ve only now decided to start enforcing it, right?

The interview question was genuinely misleading, and Yoshi’s answer seemed to reflect the interviewer’s erroneous description of what player brothels are. I’m not disparaging him. I am just saying that maybe they don’t consider actual RP brothels as big a deal as his answer (responding to a question about full-on cyberprostitution) makes them out to be.

I have no idea what the company’s stance is, but I am kind of skeptical they would go out of their way to state in the rules that private sexual roleplay is okay and then crack down on sex work roleplay with nothing but this one interview to warn the players that they treat these very similar things very differently. I mean, it’s not like they haven’t had time to figure out the details.

[Kakure]

The guy got suspended for the reasons I discussed. I strongly do not advise you to test your assertions by placing the url to 18+ content in your search or PF info. You may never hear from a GM, but you would only be one report away from it happening.

EDIT: Also, thanks for being the perfect example of why it isn't ever in a corporation's interest to enter into a debate with a customer.

EDIT II: Also it's insane that you believe the "such as" example, which outlines online streaming and video, somehow excludes other external websites like carrd, refsheet, or the website which shall remain unnamed. What's your logic for that? That SE just irrationally hates recorded evidence? Hilarious.

I thought about this a bit after I finished posting yesterday. Let's say you are right that GMs have the freedom to punish you for something on your website. You say here "by placing the URL to 18+ content in your search of PF info," but what does that matter if, as you claim, the issue is the content of the website itself?

If GMs have free rein to sanction players for the content of their Free Company’s venue’s websites, why would they only suspend players advertising a venue in Party Finder and not everyone associated with the venue or the website?

You noted that players have found discrete ways to refer to adult content outside the game. If it is true that GMs can punish you for your website, what does it matter whether I refer to it obliquely or share the whole url?

[Snorky]

This thread is still going on? It should be obvious by now that asking the forums for clarification is not the thing to do. TOS was broken, it's SEs rules just deal with it.

[Toutatis]

Especially if there is no other explanation given as to why the suspension was put on other than to 'read the TOS'.

How about actually reading the Tos? If you take the time to read the policies under Obscene/Indecent expressions, you will see that it covers ERP and invitations. The PF public invitation to the venue falls under the second paragraph quoted below. The FC of OP openly offers erp/brothel services and the advertisement was suggestive.

Direct quote from the policy:

In the case of role-playing involving mildly sexual expressions (such as erotic role-playing) with a consenting group of two or more players, if it is conducted in a private area, it will not be considered a violation unless a report is made.

However, if you encourage or invite a player to participate in such role-play without being certain of their consent, there is a high possibility that you will be reported and penalized. Please be very careful.

Edit:
Finally, on top of that excerpt, I totally understand SE acting like they do when it comes to open public invitations to an Erp FC or event held by such an FC in a game that is accessible to children age 13+.

By launching public invitations through PF, curious minors could easily join and you wouldn’t know. Reading the OP’s venue website, some of the stuff OP’s FC proposes is downright cybersex. An adult having cybersex with a minor can be a serious criminal offence in many jurisdictions (and no, you don’t even need a camera, it can be written material only). Just saying “I posted that it was for 18+“ is not sufficient. So yeah if SE announces the game to be 13+, they must take reasonable precautions to protect minors and limit their exposure to such things.

There also this tidbit in the TOS

SQUARE ENIX MAY SUSPEND, TERMINATE, MODIFY, OR DELETE FFXIV SERVICE ACCOUNTS, CHARACTERS, VIRTUAL GOODS, OR THE SERVICE ALTOGETHER, AT ANY TIME FOR ANY REASON OR FOR NO REASON, WITH OR WITHOUT NOTICE OR LIABILITY TO YOU.

[kaynide]

You’re absolutely right that rules don’t become obsolete because they are old. An answer to an interview question isn’t quite the same thing as official rules or policies though, and it would be kind of weird if this was their position all along and they’ve only now decided to start enforcing it, right?

The interview question was genuinely misleading, and Yoshi’s answer seemed to reflect the interviewer’s erroneous description of what player brothels are. I’m not disparaging him. I am just saying that maybe they don’t consider actual RP brothels as big a deal as his answer (responding to a question about full-on cyberprostitution) makes them out to be.

I have no idea what the company’s stance is, but I am kind of skeptical they would go out of their way to state in the rules that private sexual roleplay is okay and then crack down on sex work roleplay with nothing but this one interview to warn the players that they treat these very similar things very differently. I mean, it’s not like they haven’t had time to figure out the details.

I mean, this wasn’t an off the cuff reply from Tom in accounting though. This was a very stern statement by the big boss of the game. It wasn’t vague. Not sure why you can’t accept his word at face value.

[LinkBaudelaire]

and whoever wrote that "toxicity of nightclubs" webpage has my utter disgust. why? you can figure out who wrote it by which toxic venues they left out. it's sick guys. can't we just grow up and make something of ourselves and eachother instead of must making money? if not, then i don't see a reason to resub. ff may be the friendliest community...and dirt tastes better than dog poo...but i still won't eat dirt. btw, i posted a parody of that discord feet girl pf and got a 12 day suspension for it. i appealed it and the appeal was rejected. she still posts that pf to this day. what?