There's a huge Physical range shortage in PF and Statics

[Rika007]

I assume the idea was brd being the aoe buffer and dnc being the single target buffer, if dnc only had better personal potency then its performance would be a lot more competitive and less dependent on the skill of the entire party, instead being more on your partner's performance. The biggest issue with brd is that they're trying, and struggling, to balance around a change that they never should've made, which was making us get our own buffs. It was such a non-issue I couldn't believe they listened to the few people complaining about it, but here we are.

Let's not try to downplay things for the sake of an argument. It was never just a few people complaining about not getting their own buffs. Anytime issues were brought up about Bard in Shadowbringers, not being able to hear Battle Voice at the absolute minimum was always one of the issues brought up. Normally second to not getting a replacement to Foe's Requieum and having it's entire identity of being the premier party support absolutely ripped away by Dancer.

That is the real issue they are trying to fix. No one liked Bard being some awful middle ground between Machinist and Dancer. Now they are probably trying to find someway to balance the two.

[anhaato]

Let's not try to downplay things for the sake of an argument. It was never just a few people complaining about not getting their own buffs. Anytime issues were brought up about Bard in Shadowbringers, not being able to hear Battle Voice at the absolute minimum was always one of the issues brought up. Normally second to not getting a replacement to Foe's Requieum and having it's entire identity of being the premier party support absolutely ripped away by Dancer.

It was a non-issue. Some people, mostly people who either casually or rarely played it, whined about it but it was still a non-issue. Not hearing battle voice was NOT detrimental to the job's playstyle, when you play a support-oriented job you're playing for buffs you give, not buffs you get. The issue with brd back in the day was that we didn't give enough, and that's why they added radiant finale. Damage too low to measure up to mch, support too low to measure up to dnc, but the bottom line was we were still most definitely support oriented. If they had left battle voice as it was, guaranteed there wouldn't be this huge balancing issue, and it would still play and feel the exact same.

Now, if you want to talk about things that actually ARE or WERE detrimental to the job's playstyle:
-No overcap prevention for MB (which they "fixed" by making it so that our only busy song is WM)
-AP's haste causing clipping in the next WM burst window (not fixed)
-Very few true support options for a support job (fixed)

It's a non-issue because, though our numbers on both the support and dps side were disappointing, the balance between ranged was still semi-decent even if dnc started shutting out the others at the highest levels of play. Now that they "fixed" the buffs "issue" we're seeing a huge imbalance of brd shutting out the other ranged at almost all levels. And yet, despite how strong it is now, people still don't want to play it in pf, why? Because the gameplay either still has unfixed issues or new ones put in place of old ones. The simple addition of radiant finale while keeping the rest of the job the same would've EASILY brought it up to same level as dnc.

[Flatopia]

I assume the idea was brd being the aoe buffer and dnc being the single target buffer, if dnc only had better personal potency then its performance would be a lot more competitive and less dependent on the skill of the entire party, instead being more on your partner's performance. The biggest issue with brd is that they're trying, and struggling, to balance around a change that they never should've made, which was making us get our own buffs. It was such a non-issue I couldn't believe they listened to the few people complaining about it, but here we are.

maybe, personally I was kind of on board with bard's radiant finale when it was 90s, so it's on par with tech on paper but has a jank timing. If they made it 120sec I figured it'd be weaker.
Just odd that technical step is just an objective step down from finale when DNC used to be known for it's godly 2 minute buff. Just kinda feels bad as a dancer, ya know? It'd be like if dark knight got wings. Yeah, dark knight's kit is boring and needs some love, but that doesn't mean it can just take Paladin's stuff lol

[Connor]

Physical ranged as a whole needs looked at or just reworked entirely. The latter is 99.999% not gonna happen but honestly I think it needs to.

I mean how do they ever expect people to value a role whose only draw is ‘you can jump while you attack ’ even though every role can jump while they attack lol. What else does it have? DPS uptime? Like Summoner and Red Mage? Support? Like Dragoon and Reaper? Easy rotations? Tell that to Machinists lol

They certainly aren’t going to take us for Peloton or Damage Reduction Role Skill (Troubadour etc lol).

That seems like a symptom of a much deeper issue than simply potencies if you ask me. I worry that the devs are just going to repeat history and create a flip-flop buff war between Bard and Dancer where they’re constantly having to adjust one to compete with the other until one or the other - or both - reaches astronomical levels and they have to pop the power creep balloon and start again the next expansion, usually with significant changes (or removals) to their toolkit.

Do you think Yoshi-P stays in Heaven because he fears what he created? (phys ranged lol). It’s like the devs have this constant terror that ranged phys is going to break the game again so they just keep making it worse and worse so people don’t stack it lol.

Personally my opinion is that they should stop desperately trying to squish us into holes we don’t fit lol. They keep trying to balance the ranged physical role as if they’re full on pure dps in the same capacity as Ninjas, Dragoons, Reapers, etc. If they gave up trying to give us the illusion that we can be top dps and lean more into the ranged phys as the ‘support dps’, it’d have a reason to actually exist outside of just being a category for ‘attackers that aren’t as good as everyone else’. Machinist would naturally remain as the ‘selfish phys ranged’ that has no support capabilities so people who want to be a ranged without supporting can still do so (without having to become casters lol)

[CKNovel]

Physical ranged as a whole needs looked at or just reworked entirely. The latter is 99.999% not gonna happen but honestly I think it needs to.

I mean how do they ever expect people to value a role whose only draw is ‘you can jump while you attack ’ even though every role can jump while they attack lol. What else does it have? DPS uptime? Like Summoner and Red Mage? Support? Like Dragoon and Reaper? Easy rotations? Tell that to Machinists lol

It's kind of a basis that ranged role is just a subDPS and subSupport.
Deals less DPS and provide less support than any other role but it has worthless mobility only useful to themselves that only serves to run in circle in front of the bosses and we have yet to see mechanics to be baited since... O11S?

There is multiple solutions:
A - Give ranged more DPS to fit with the other roles
Mobility Tax is deprecated in a design where BLM has crazy utility, PLD can go on ranged mode half of its rotation and SMN exists.
Since people still plays BLM/SAM despite the jobs being undertuned, be reassured that "double ranged" won't be the meta even if Ranged DPS is through the roof.
The current Meta isn't Reaper + Monk. Surprise, there is less MNK than SAM, proving yet again that people plays the job they want.

B - Keep the DPS low, but focus on utility
Shielding, strong mitigation, healing...
Ranged are supposed to be "Support DPS" yet MCH offers nothing, BRD doesn't offers more than SMN or RDM.
Focusing on party survival can make the range role valuable to the group.

You could also give the ranged a gimmick like how Melees have positionals or casters have casts.
Right now, there is only 1 reason to play Ranged and that's the 1% stats buff. If it wasn't there, you would see less ranged.
I play the job I enjoy and I don't enjoy being the burden of the group.

[Maxilor]

Why don't I play a Physical Ranged? Because I don't want to be a burden on my team.

As someone said already, playing a Physical Ranged is like being forced to take your little brother Trick or Treating with your friends because mom forced you too.

DNC was the most interesting class to me because it flipped the idea of a DPS upside down and focused on the Support and Buffing side of it, it brought everyone else up and people LOVED you for playing DNC because of it.

So yes to add my voice to the chorus, BUFF DNC and while your at it buff the entire role in general.

[ExcMiddle]

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You could also give the ranged a gimmick like how Melees have positionals or casters have casts.
Right now, there is only 1 reason to play Ranged and that's the 1% stats buff. If it wasn't there, you would see less ranged.
I play the job I enjoy and I don't enjoy being the burden of the group.

Note that I am coming on this w.o. any mch knowledge.

To me, this should be just that their rotation should be more busy, or in general the playstyle. For instance, shb bard did fit that bill with the dot tracking, the triple weaving in MB, ea drifting and in general paying a lot of attention for your following ogcds (and with how it became in multitarget where positioning became more important on top of the increase in intensity of the single target playstyle)

Dancer I always wished it would play a bit with the party list. If dance partner could for instance be assigned in the same manner as kardia and your standard step buff would linger on your previous partner at least for a bit so that you would have an incentive to swap around partners considering that you are refreshing the buff 3 times now in the opener.

The idea is that since they have instants like melee yet no positionals to worry about, their rotations should just be a bit busier in some sense.

But if they are to keep this as is, we need phys ranged mechanics (interesting interrupts, mechs where one mobile dps can help solve it.) And we could use a merge of the heavy and bind role actions into 1 and make a new role action to see use in raids.

[Maxilor]

I do kind of like the idea of BRD becoming the Raid Wide Buffer and DNC ultra focusing and becoming the single player buffer.

BRD gets an increase to it's raid wide damage buff potential.

DNC loses Technical Step but it gets replaced with a new buff that essentially turns your Dance Partner into a Super Saiyan damage wise, so choosing the right Dance Partner becomes even more important.

MCH can still be the selfish Ranged Physical choice, just increase their DPS.

[Derio]

DNC personal damage is so low that if your party doesnt properly utilize buff windows the job sufferes. MCH just simply doesnt do enough damage for how busy the job is.

Next expansion needs to have a physical ranged added because we need more options for that role.

[HappyHubris]

DNC personal damage is so low that if your party doesnt properly utilize buff windows the job sufferes. MCH just simply doesnt do enough damage for how busy the job is.

Next expansion needs to have a physical ranged added because we need more options for that role.

But then DNC, BRD, and MCH will be stripped further to craft the new job. This game doesn't need more jobs, it needs more refinement of existing jobs.