There's a huge Physical range shortage in PF and Statics

[Mysticunicycle]

Also, with dancer being 10% at best when your party is r1 parsing, and ~15-20% at worst below reaper in rDPS, the role bonus is almost a wash. It's sad, but just taking a reaper or monk and ignoring pranged altogether isn't really going to affect the bottom line until 6.08 when we see changes.

[Anacrusys]

BRD. If you had to guess, for ST what percent of your damage comes from Burst Shot? 50%?

[Mysticunicycle]

BRD. If you had to guess, for ST what percent of your damage comes from Burst Shot? 50%?

Burst shot is ~27% and Refulgent arrow is around ~18%. So 45% between what is essentially the same button.

[EdwinLi]

People are overthinking this. Most of the community doesn't care about "best" or "meta". The simple reason is that Reaper and Summoner are essentially new classes and have drawn a lot of people away towards those classes. We saw this in the Extremes long before 6.05 "meta" was decided. None of the physical ranged had any changes that make it "new." Bard just extended their song phases to 45 seconds from 30 seconds. Machinist just added one additional "Drill/Air Anchor" GCD every 60 seconds. With Dancer, they just pulled 2 GCDs from flourish and replaced it with 2 other new GCDs during their burst.

maybe overthinking during these first few months but the "new" reason usually dies down after the first 6 months once players figure out which Job they enjoy playing during this cycle of contents until next expansion.

In the end, it usually comes down to which job they enjoy playing the most but of course reasons will vary based on what each person is looking for that makes their gameplay experience "fun"

[Flatopia]

At this point I'm beating P4s on dancer just to show I can LOL. Bard is just shitting on the other two. I still have no clue why they gave bard just better tech-step.

[anhaato]

At this point I'm beating P4s on dancer just to show I can LOL. Bard is just shitting on the other two. I still have no clue why they gave bard just better tech-step.

I assume the idea was brd being the aoe buffer and dnc being the single target buffer, if dnc only had better personal potency then its performance would be a lot more competitive and less dependent on the skill of the entire party, instead being more on your partner's performance. The biggest issue with brd is that they're trying, and struggling, to balance around a change that they never should've made, which was making us get our own buffs. It was such a non-issue I couldn't believe they listened to the few people complaining about it, but here we are.

[Rika007]

I assume the idea was brd being the aoe buffer and dnc being the single target buffer, if dnc only had better personal potency then its performance would be a lot more competitive and less dependent on the skill of the entire party, instead being more on your partner's performance. The biggest issue with brd is that they're trying, and struggling, to balance around a change that they never should've made, which was making us get our own buffs. It was such a non-issue I couldn't believe they listened to the few people complaining about it, but here we are.

Let's not try to downplay things for the sake of an argument. It was never just a few people complaining about not getting their own buffs. Anytime issues were brought up about Bard in Shadowbringers, not being able to hear Battle Voice at the absolute minimum was always one of the issues brought up. Normally second to not getting a replacement to Foe's Requieum and having it's entire identity of being the premier party support absolutely ripped away by Dancer.

That is the real issue they are trying to fix. No one liked Bard being some awful middle ground between Machinist and Dancer. Now they are probably trying to find someway to balance the two.

[anhaato]

Let's not try to downplay things for the sake of an argument. It was never just a few people complaining about not getting their own buffs. Anytime issues were brought up about Bard in Shadowbringers, not being able to hear Battle Voice at the absolute minimum was always one of the issues brought up. Normally second to not getting a replacement to Foe's Requieum and having it's entire identity of being the premier party support absolutely ripped away by Dancer.

It was a non-issue. Some people, mostly people who either casually or rarely played it, whined about it but it was still a non-issue. Not hearing battle voice was NOT detrimental to the job's playstyle, when you play a support-oriented job you're playing for buffs you give, not buffs you get. The issue with brd back in the day was that we didn't give enough, and that's why they added radiant finale. Damage too low to measure up to mch, support too low to measure up to dnc, but the bottom line was we were still most definitely support oriented. If they had left battle voice as it was, guaranteed there wouldn't be this huge balancing issue, and it would still play and feel the exact same.

Now, if you want to talk about things that actually ARE or WERE detrimental to the job's playstyle:
-No overcap prevention for MB (which they "fixed" by making it so that our only busy song is WM)
-AP's haste causing clipping in the next WM burst window (not fixed)
-Very few true support options for a support job (fixed)

It's a non-issue because, though our numbers on both the support and dps side were disappointing, the balance between ranged was still semi-decent even if dnc started shutting out the others at the highest levels of play. Now that they "fixed" the buffs "issue" we're seeing a huge imbalance of brd shutting out the other ranged at almost all levels. And yet, despite how strong it is now, people still don't want to play it in pf, why? Because the gameplay either still has unfixed issues or new ones put in place of old ones. The simple addition of radiant finale while keeping the rest of the job the same would've EASILY brought it up to same level as dnc.

[CKNovel]

At this point I'm beating P4s on dancer just to show I can LOL. Bard is just shitting on the other two. I still have no clue why they gave bard just better tech-step.

There's no "I" in team. If you pick a Dancer rather than a BRD, it's not a downside for you but for the whole team.
Your team will need to put more efforts to compensate for the job difference.

I'm not discouraging you from player Dancer, people should be able to pick the job of their choice without feeling being a downgrade for the group. I'm simply sharing the feeling that being a burden for the team by playing a weaker job.
DPS check are doable with MCH and DNC on week 1, but it was harder simply because of job choice.

We shouldn't feel "Sorry, I should've been a BRD, if I was a BRD we could've cleared it"

People are overthinking this. Most of the community doesn't care about "best" or "meta".

If you compare DRK and PLD, I'll quote ZhephZaeora, :
"A DRK could AFK for an entire minute while doing mechanics and still pull comparable DPS to a full uptime PLD. There's a certain disparity which comfort on a job cannot overcome."
There are situations where a pull can be an enrage or a clear solely decided by the job balance.
While it's not possible to achieve perfect balanced, I believe the development team should aim to reduce that discrepancy as much as possible.

Sure, it's overthinking in week 3/4 where DPS increases quite a lot thanks to loot.
Past that point where you cumulate more and more loot, DPS check becomes irrelevant.

MCH's personal dps is *much* higher than BRD's. Like, 1000 dps higher. It just has zero party dps gain, so its rDPS is lower because BRD's buffs are quite strong right now.

What does it changes?
It's not about comparing job damages to each other, it's about comparing what they bring to the group.
If MCH PDPS is 1000 higher than BRD but BRD distributes 200 rDPS to each party member (1400), MCH remains below BRD.

Think about it this way:
You have $10.000 on you.
Your friend only have $6.000 but David owes him $3.000 and Frederick owes him $3.000 as well.

Who is richer?
Personal DPS ignores what you borrowed and what you owe.

[Flatopia]

I assume the idea was brd being the aoe buffer and dnc being the single target buffer, if dnc only had better personal potency then its performance would be a lot more competitive and less dependent on the skill of the entire party, instead being more on your partner's performance. The biggest issue with brd is that they're trying, and struggling, to balance around a change that they never should've made, which was making us get our own buffs. It was such a non-issue I couldn't believe they listened to the few people complaining about it, but here we are.

maybe, personally I was kind of on board with bard's radiant finale when it was 90s, so it's on par with tech on paper but has a jank timing. If they made it 120sec I figured it'd be weaker.
Just odd that technical step is just an objective step down from finale when DNC used to be known for it's godly 2 minute buff. Just kinda feels bad as a dancer, ya know? It'd be like if dark knight got wings. Yeah, dark knight's kit is boring and needs some love, but that doesn't mean it can just take Paladin's stuff lol