Just Delete PvP at this Point

[Commander_Justitia]

They don't like a more complex PvP mode, because when we had it during 3.x, newbies couldn't get into it and just got farmed by good players.
They specifically didn't like all the buffs/debuffs showing, too much skills on hotbars and some jobs having synergy with others.
Their idea was to attract more players with a more casual PvP mode. The same happens in PvE btw.
I can't recall any PvP players asking for such drastic changes in 3.x, they were openminded and surprised about it if anything, because they knew some balancing was needed for some classes (mnk/mch), but playing PvP since then felt like you only play with one hand. So don't blame the players who still continued to play it and get the rewards tied to it lol, it was the devs decision to mix it up to the state we had for the last 16 seasons. I think they were happy with it until JP fanfest tournament happened.


Edit: I posted it before somewhere and keep it for meme, it was their presentation


But yeah, it is hard to do engaging 1vs1, 4vs4, 24vs24 together - if you have only like 5-15skills that mostly only do dmg, and mostly have a cooldown under 30s. But just wait and see what next patch brings, maybe it is fun to you.

[Anhra]

The good thing is, that the promises of a Director isn't worth much on the long run of things from a objective perspective (remember when Yoshi P. also said that PLD will never be able to block magic?) so with some luck, his thoughts changed during all this time.

But honestly speaking, i think making PvP more casualfriendly is just a excuse from their side to not put more effort into it than it actually deserves.

Casual PvP can still have complexity and still be easy to grasp ( TES Online is a good example on this. You always work with 12 Abilities at most, 2 of them being ultimate abilities. And yet most builds on any role CAN potentially score kills in a 1vs1 scenario) if it is designed properly.

[Divinemights]

The good thing is, that the promises of a Director isn't worth much on the long run of things from a objective perspective (remember when Yoshi P. also said that PLD will never be able to block magic?) so with some luck, his thoughts changed during all this time.
But honestly speaking, i think making PvP more casualfriendly is just a excuse from their side to not put more effort into it than it actually deserves.
Casual PvP can still have complexity and still be easy to grasp ( TES Online is a good example on this. You always work with 12 Abilities at most, 2 of them being ultimate abilities. And yet most builds on any role CAN potentially score kills in a 1vs1 scenario) if it is designed properly.

Except you are expecting a 100% turn around on something already tried and proven failed by the development team
FF14 PvP prior to Stormblood was a WoW clone.
It used to be just like WoW.
Ninja with complex control it is possible to kill someone under 15s then walk away in stealth while his friends is still mounted and not aware of what happened.
Veterans always outplayed newbies and pretty much put a stop on the PvP community growth when FF14 originally targeted audiences is PvE players

I am also surprised you are using WoW as example as it is infamous of being unbalance artificially by Blizzard development team; yet, WoW also never balance around 1 v 1..
FF14 PvP after Stormblood did get rid of complex system and able to diminish the gap between newbies and veterans and PvP community starting to experience a real growth.
Perhaps FF14 being too balanced where veterans missing the tools to create a status quo where they are able to destroy newbies like they did in ARR/Heavensward.

They are not going to go back because they did found a working formula that is different than WoW.
Also, MMORPG PvP balance will never aim for 1 v1 or duels. (Tera Online PvP was a joke)
Mind you, I have been and always am a lone wolf PvP players in FF14 and I have never expect any game to be balance at 1 v 1, it is just an absurd idea.

[AtomicBomb]

Currently, the only thing I log in for is to play Frontlines (on any day except Borderland Ruins). Haven't even completed the EW MSQ. As "bad" as PvP is in this game, I find it more enjoyable than any of the PvE content. Maybe because it's the only thing that can still surprise you in this game after you've done it once, or maybe it's because the quality of players in FL is so low that it's easy to go godlike...

[Anhra]

snip

You can insult WoW / Tera Onlines PvP as much as you want, but regardless of your personal take, it is a objective fact that both Games have/had (since Tera is now pretty much dead, at least on EU side) way better PvP than FFXIV ever had.
Current FFXIV PvP design is a absolute mess and doesn't deserve to be defended on any matter. It isn't fun, it isn't rewarding (especially not for new Players) and the Job Balance in combat is completely artificial and only revolves arround zerging.

And it isn't about "going back to the old days" as you maybe used to know it, or do i say that FFXIV should copy X MMO. All i was providing, was examples and references of Games that have, from a Gameplay perspective (and in a objective as possible manner) more fun PvP experience than this Game has. Those have put in FAR more effort into their PvP and were played by both casuals and dedicated People alike.

And this "what about the childre... casuals?" Excuse is getting old here. Try thinking for yourself first before you think about others here. Just like Raiding isn't for everyone, the same goes for PvP. Those who show interest in it, know on a vague scale what they sign up for and unlike WoW, which has to a degree forced PvP, that isn't the case for most MMOs that have PvP in them.

[Divinemights]

Snip

You can praise both failed systems all you want, but PvP in WoW since TBC until 9.0 and 2 years in TERA Online I am only seeing artificial unbalance created by the development team, high level of entry that requires extensive grind, player skill cap created artificially from over complicate gameplay and gear driven instead of skill driven gear system.

Your generic finger pointing (something repeated by newbies who refuse to learn) I am seeing no detail on so called problem or any constructive suggestion beside asking to clone two other failed games. I get it, FF14 is not offering a style you want but doesn’t mean it fails.

FF14 for casuals are just some sore reaction from a small fraction of veterans because they are powerless to do anything with PvE farmers. It was a totally different experience if you play on JP data center. You may want to stop thinking other region is like your EU region because nothing yet u said makes sense from a person who played more than 15,000 frontline

A lot veterans probably dont likes it but the gap between veterans and newbies are diminished in term of gameplay. Right now I can only differienate the difference by seeing whether they know heaving swing and weapon throw is on same DR. In which it is a good thing. The problem with Frontline was never with the system but more with people refuse to follow leadership

[Rhais]

I don't think FL would work well with just 2 teams, and getting sandwiched is usually completely avoidable.

[Caitlyn]

I don't think FL would work well with just 2 teams, and getting sandwiched is usually completely avoidable.

I would really like to know how to avoid to getting sandwiched. Because its happening on my datacenter in nearly every match. That makes FL more random than the gold saucers mini cactpot.

And FL would work with 2 team very well. I dont see why you need 3 teams so bad. 2 bases and some minor changes on the map is all you need. That would decrease the RNG-factor by alot.

Needless to say, that the "Battle High"-buff make some jobs nearly impossible to kill, while they can kill you in no time. And still having roles (tanks, healers, dps) in PvP is still unbalanced, especially in a 1v1 fight.

[Rhais]

I would really like to know how to avoid to getting sandwiched. Because its happening on my datacenter in nearly every match. That makes FL more random than the gold saucers mini cactpot.

And FL would work with 2 team very well. I dont see why you need 3 teams so bad. 2 bases and some minor changes on the map is all you need. That would decrease the RNG-factor by alot.

Then you would probably often see situations where one team realizes it can steamroll the other and proceeds to do so for the entire rest of the match, ignoring all objectives and still dominating.

[Caitlyn]

Then you would probably often see situations where one team realizes it can steamroll the other and proceeds to do so for the entire rest of the match, ignoring all objectives and still dominating.

Then its at least balanced, because its still 24v24 and not 24v48. Do you really think its better when 2 teams are dominating the 3rd together?

Lets play this round. One team is aggressively attacking (or dominating) the other team. Ignoring all objectives. But a few people from the other team manages to going stealth and playing the objectives, while their team is still distracting the other. The dominating team will lose players slowly and newly spawned reinforcements are to far away. At the end, the dominated team will get more points than their attackers, because they manage to push them back or overwhelm them while playing the objectives in the meantime.


At the current state, FL is just a big guessing game.
You cant even be safe in your own base, because the invincible-buff only lasts 10s after spawn. But good luck defending your base after that.
You get sandwiched purely random. One faction picks the weakest faction, the other faction just goes totally enrage. Good luck defending against them.
And your most own team doesnt even know how to play FL. Defending points? Take out drones? Capture stuff? No, just chasing one enemy trought the entire map and got killed afterwards.

While you cant fix players, you can at least try to fix the game. Make it 2 teams, so there is no sandwich. Make bases safe (add turrets or a buff) and make some balance changes for jobs.
Until that, there is no chance to play FL seriously.