Just Delete PvP at this Point

[Divinemights]

I can't say how far in the past your claim is when it didnt had the EXP reward yet, since i only exist since Stormblood, but if that was during Heavensward, i recall that PvP back then used to be at its peak in many aspects including Job design so it would be understandable if People would queue there just for fun, if the gameplay is. But as things currently stand, Frontline mainly exist just for the Daily EXP dose and thats all there is to it.
Also, my claims come from the EU side of things, and most People there overall dislike PvP and wouldnt even touch it with a stick if it werent for the EXP.

I will straight forward telling you right now 6.1 will not work for your EU datacter because the people there seems just don't like the concept of Player vs Player.
The problem is always with the people, not the system.
As far as SE concern, they have a healthy PvP sector and they never aim for e-sport like Blizzard did.
Whatever happened in EU region due to its people do not equals overall performance.

[Ixon]

I have yet to see a single one of you post a single meaningful comment on these Forums that make genuine suggestions on how to improve things on the side of PvP.

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...ted-incidents.

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...eedback-Thread

Those are just my own. There are plenty more made by many other veterans of FFXIV PVP. Not to mention all the work done on the other social platforms as well.

As for me, i stopped bothering going past Gold Rank ever since Season 18, because the effort clearly isnt worth the Armor. If 677 Games as BLM in the first Month dont get me past Gold, then neither will 1200 Games.

This is important to highlight, to show that it is actually difficult at times to get into top 100. You said in a few posts before: "All that you and your collaborators fear, is that youre not going to live on easy street anymore once PvP balance (in terms of Job design) hits a point, where proper matchups are possible, and you wont be able to cheese your way trough the Modes as you are used to." So which is it? Is it easy? It can't be if you "tried" so hard and still didn't get there. There are people who played over a thousand games just to get Top 100, it wasn't easy for them. I personally MISSED Top 100 two seasons in a row by about games worth of points. It was no ones fault but my own. Took a break, came back, been making top 100 ever since. Knowing how difficult and demanding it has been at times helps me respect the time put in by other people who received rewards that I didn't get whether by lack of time and effort.

People like me know it's flawed. People like me have been trying to get SE to make changes for years. Some people have put forth way more time and effort than myself to hopefully make this happen. Our complaints on others posts isn't because we want things to stay the same, we just don't want the spirit of competitiveness taken away. This game is so incredibly easy as it is. Think about it, let's say you committed and played 1200 games for top 100, you would be in the same boat as us when someone makes a post for the hundredth time asking for old rewards to be exchanged for wolf marks. That's not even an exaggeration, those posts exist cause people want all the cool stuff without putting in any of the work for it. You can improve on PVP, making it more accessible to new people while keeping veterans and the spirit of competitiveness happy, without invalidating the accomplishments of those who put in the time even you weren't willing to put in.

[Cesarion]

Frontline didn’t offer exp or tome originally and there are still 72 men every 5 mins during prime time 7:00 pm to 2:00 am est.
So, you are literally clueless of what you are talking about.

I like how you mention the old HW PVP for your example, that was without XP. Back in HW pvp was at its peak and all PVE abilties were included in it.

You are literally clueless of what you are talking about, and disingenious on top of it.

[Anhra]

Literally everything other than current raids raids exist for exp.

"Feast is just a exclusive Club for cheaters, elo-manipulators and whatever the microscopic rest is. Good Riddance." - I'll take "missed top 100 and am looking to blame others" for a thousand Alex.

Yeah, they aren't made for dueling. They are balanced for the two modes that require you to be paired with others, go figure.

Saying that because a minority enjoys something means they are wrong is quite ignorant.

It is just as ignorant to expect that PvP should "belong" to People like you. There is plenty of People who want to enjoy PvP, but straight up cant because of the mess it is.

All that you and your collaborators fear, is that youre not going to live on easy street anymore once PvP balance (in terms of Job design) hits a point, where proper matchups are possible, and you wont be able to cheese your way trough the Modes as you are used to.

I am looking very forward to this day, should it ever happen.

[Ixon]

It is just as ignorant to expect that PvP should "belong" to People like you. There is plenty of People who want to enjoy PvP, but straight up cant because of the mess it is.

All that you and your collaborators fear, is that youre not going to live on easy street anymore once PvP balance (in terms of Job design) hits a point, where proper matchups are possible, and you wont be able to cheese your way trough the Modes as you are used to.

I am looking very forward to this day, should it ever happen.

What kind of "sickness must be purged" mentality is this? PVP doesn't belong to anyone, it's for anyone who wants to enjoy it, whether that hundreds or thousands. Collaborators? This isn't the illuminati. The only thing I collaborate on is working with others making as much information available to new players as possible because SE does a terrible job at doing so. Easy street? If it was easy street you would have the season rewards just like me. I put in thousands and thousands of hours per season, so I have no idea who you are talking to when you say easy street. In fact, I would have put in LESS time if there was actually a more balanced game mode because most of my losses came from having the worse team due to terrible matchmaking. Cheese? I play tank lmao. Sat through 30min to 1hour queues to get 600'd in 2 min cause I got a new Plat in a high Diamond match. Believe me, I am looking forward to the day this is fixed WAY more than you can possibly imagine.

[Anhra]

I will straight forward telling you right now 6.1 will not work for your EU datacter because the people there seems just don't like the concept of Player vs Player.
The problem is always with the people, not the system.
As far as SE concern, they have a healthy PvP sector and they never aim for e-sport like Blizzard did.
Whatever happened in EU region due to its people do not equals overall performance.

The thing is, its not about going towards e-sport like competition. What i am trying to say here, is that FFXIV PvP lacks the fundamentals of a good PvP system. I mean, it does work, but the same can be said about putting chocolate on Pizza, you CAN eat it, but what about the taste?

And from the way i see it, FFXIV PvP is a Pizza that is just the dough, tomatosauce and chocolate, halfway backed and then left in the oven from Heavensward all the way to present day.

[Commander_Justitia]

Copium aside, as long as Squeenix doesn't understand that PVP revolves mainly about 1vs1 combat, and then Group content in a MMORPG, FFXIV will never be good in that aspect. If they cant design the fundamentals, how can anyone ever expect them to do any better in large scale PvP?

What i am trying to say here, is that FFXIV PvP lacks the fundamentals of a good PvP system.

What are you even asking for ... You want 1vs1 balance, then group content for PvP, but they better don't mess up large scale PvP?
Do you realize that balancing around all 3 types, is not a "good PvP system"? Sounds like you can never make it right, there will be always something to complain.

I don't see any suggestion from you either, you seem mad that some have an "easy street", while in reality, PvP was lowering the skill gap so much the last years, that it was pretty balanced between 'newbie with a little practise' and a veteran player.
They sucked out the fun with that, because "being good" meant you had to go the extra mile/tryhard to mitigate the occurence of unlucky RNG elements in PvP.
Example: You did an awesome super synced burst, but newbie uses a potion and it snapshots at low HP to get the most value out of it, instant 6k Heal, he magically survives, eventhough everyone did their best possible. While when the burst happened on you, you know it is going to happen, you pre potion, get only a 3k heal out of it, but effectively you were punished for knowing the mode better, if you waited to get lower HP to get a bigger potion value, you maybe would have died because of latency/tick.

I hope they don't balance as strict anymore, it is okay if some abilities are a bit broken on each job, it is more fun than uptime/PvE-pressure strat. Not sure if there is room for abilities with very long cooldowns, if you only have around 8-9 abilities again.

[Anhra]

What are you even asking for ... You want 1vs1 balance, then group content for PvP, but they better don't mess up large scale PvP?
Do you realize that balancing around all 3 types, is not a "good PvP system"? Sounds like you can never make it right, there will be always something to complain.

First, having PvP balanced arround both duels as well as Group content isn't the Rocket Science you make it out to be. If Classes work in a way, where the possibility of winning with any Class aganist any of the other Classes lies within the realm of possibility, it is already a good foundation for PvP. Once a good foundation is set into Stone, it will also project itself well into ANY Group Content, no matter the size.
Will one Class be stronger than another? Absolutely, but in exchange, another Job could excel in performing even better if circumstances allow for it, like doing hit and run attacks from Stealth, to name a example.

Allow me to remind you, that FFXIV has 19 playable Jobs in PvP. 8 of them, are straight up unkillable in a 1vs1 if we assume that both Players are of equal/similar Skilllevel in terms of performance. From the REMAINING 11, 5 out of 6 Jobs hold a overwhelming advantage over the remaining 6.

Our Jobs have many issues, like having too many PvE Skills in a PvP scenario (like raw damage abilities without additional effects), debuffs and CC are way too few and AoE versions outside of splash range is nonexistent. And too make matters worse, Sustain Potions and the overwhelming amount of non-punishable Healing from any side, is making Fights extremely onesided.

[Anhra]

I don't see any suggestion from you either...

Second, You want suggestions? I'll give you suggestions.

Try taking a look at PvP from other MMOs. On how ESO does it, on how WoW does it, how Tera Online does PvP, or any of the oldschool MMOs, to name a few examples. Watch how PvP combat flows there in both 1vs1 Scenarios as well as Group Content, such as Arena fights, Battlegrounds and so on. And then, look back at FFXIV. What do you think all those other MMOs have there in Common what FFXIV does not have? Ill leave the answer up to you, im sure you will figure it out. Its not that difficult.

Now how to MAKE FFXIV better in terms of PvP? Id say there are many ways of doing so. But what this Game needs first and foremost, is have a good selection of Modes to play, STICK TO IT, and then improve and go more in-depth.

Now what does in-depth mean exactly?
It means, that things such as all avaiable Classes, have a fair amount of variety in them ( such as Skills being customiseable trough a Skilltree/Gear) and/or Content having random Elements that might make a difference, like Items/Buffs that can be picked up, Landmines, you name it.
If something like this, is properly executed, then even a underperforming Class can adapt to the everchanging Metagame of PvP good enough without falling behind, simply by being able to approach things from another angle if another doesnt work out for you.

Tl;dr: FFXIV PvP is too Black and White and needs more than just another Gamemode.