Would this compromise for positionals work?

[Mikey_R]

Just leave them gone. They are halfway there to actually doing something they should have been doing since the start - making jobs interesting to play. Positionals exist as arbitrary busy work and give the illusion of depth. They come at the cost of not actualy having something be mechnically engaging. The developers clearly took the lazy way and the community are begging for it. Crazy to think that in most other MMORPGs a lot players can see positionals for what they are, but not here clearly.

Guys, it is possible to have amazing melee class design without positionals, you don't even have to believe, JUST GO PLAY LITERALLY ANYTHING ELSE!

Anything in a job is arbitrary busywork when you get down to it. Why have oGCDs? It is just arbitrary busy work to, well, keep you busy. Why have combos? Arbitrary busywork to keep you busy etc.

The difference is how these different actions keep you busy, whether it is building up stacks to progress to higher states of power, or in the old Monk case, keeping you moving and constantly thinking about how to maximise damage from where you hit the boss.

Also, define mechanically engaging. Is it doing things in a certain order to maximise damage, which is essentially all oGCDs are, or could you define it as doing your rotation around boss mechanics, don't jump at the wrong time, don't buff up before the boss jumps etc. If that is the case, positionals can be seen as a form of as mechanically engaging as you are doing your rotation around boss mechanics, whilst keeping in mind what the boss is actually doing, similar to how BLM has to keep in mind what the boss is going to do when they decide where to stand.

With the removal of positionals, regardless of your position on them, you cannot deny that it is a reduction in a job's complexity. With that said, why can I have a job that can be quite strict with GCD/oGCD usage (think Ninja when lining everything up for Trick Attack) but not have one where they can be strict in positioning around a boss? Monk used to have the most positionals, now it doesn't, it used to have things to keep it busy/things to keep track off for the whole rotation, now it's burst is busy, but only on even minutes, and the rest is bare.

As for the comment on amazing class designs without positionals, yes, that is true, I enjoy Dragoon and Reaper (have yet to level Samurai and Ninja), however, I also enjoyed Monk with it's many positionals as a change in gameplay. It is the option to choose between many positionals and less positionals dependant on my mood that makes the spectrum of positional requirements a good one. And, to turn your own argument on it's head, like it has been several times, if you do not like a melee with loads of positionals, you can play any of the others. As someone who liked many positionals, I now have nothing to play that fits that criteria., not that you care, you got what you wanted, screw everyone else.

[wereotter]

Just leave them gone. They are halfway there to actually doing something they should have been doing since the start - making jobs interesting to play. Positionals exist as arbitrary busy work and give the illusion of depth. They come at the cost of not actualy having something be mechnically engaging. The developers clearly took the lazy way and the community are begging for it. Crazy to think that in most other MMORPGs a lot players can see positionals for what they are, but not here clearly.

Guys, it is possible to have amazing melee class design without positionals, you don't even have to believe, JUST GO PLAY LITERALLY ANYTHING ELSE!

Ah yes... we were all being mean to you when we advised you to go play literally any other job when monk was positional heavy, but now that the shoe is on the other foot, we should bo play literally anything else... like... ummm.... remind me what other positional heavy jobs are in this game?

At this point I am certain you're just stirring up the muck because you get some joy out of it rather than actually believing anything you have to say.

[IruruCece]

Ah yes... we were all being mean to you when we advised you to go play literally any other job when monk was positional heavy, but now that the shoe is on the other foot, we should bo play literally anything else... like... ummm.... remind me what other positional heavy jobs are in this game?

At this point I am certain you're just stirring up the muck because you get some joy out of it rather than actually believing anything you have to say.

Dude goes on the healing forums and says "healers should only heal" unironically. His contribution to the dancer discussion is that it was okay they weren't doing good damage. He is exactly what you say he is.

[LeonKeyh]

There's an intersection of movement when it comes to mechanisms in fights. Fight-based movement requirements (e.g. getting out of AEs) and class-based movement (e.g. Cast times, positionals). The point is to make have an interesting decision making process that happens when playing these classes. Casters typically have abilities that allow them to negate (e.g. Swift Cast) or lower (e.g. Hyperspeed) cast times at certain points during the fight and melee have certain abilities (i.e. True North) that negate the positional requirement.

These are aspects of tactical gameplay. Positionals in Shadowbringers didn't even matter that much and they matter so much less now. Crit rate causes a bigger swing in DPS than positionals right now. Phys Range are available if you don't like either of those two movement related gameplay mechanisms.

[Navnav]

Ah yes... we were all being mean to you when we advised you to go play literally any other job when monk was positional heavy, but now that the shoe is on the other foot, we should bo play literally anything else... like... ummm.... remind me what other positional heavy jobs are in this game?

At this point I am certain you're just stirring up the muck because you get some joy out of it rather than actually believing anything you have to say.

But is that what I was saying though? No. I told you go play something else to see how positionals are NOT used to make classes interesting, but yeah, when you all chat the usual nonsense as you do you come to my posts to quote and blatantly spin what I say when I clearly said something different.

You know what? I dont even need to argue with none of you, because positional heavy gameplay is dead now. Long live the king - Developers with common sense!!!!

[IruruCece]

You know what? I dont even need to argue with none of you

Is that a promise?

[Navnav]

Anything in a job is arbitrary busywork when you get down to it. Why have oGCDs? It is just arbitrary busy work to, well, keep you busy. Why have combos? Arbitrary busywork to keep you busy etc.

The difference is how these different actions keep you busy, whether it is building up stacks to progress to higher states of power, or in the old Monk case, keeping you moving and constantly thinking about how to maximise damage from where you hit the boss.

Also, define mechanically engaging. Is it doing things in a certain order to maximise damage, which is essentially all oGCDs are, or could you define it as doing your rotation around boss mechanics, don't jump at the wrong time, don't buff up before the boss jumps etc. If that is the case, positionals can be seen as a form of as mechanically engaging as you are doing your rotation around boss mechanics, whilst keeping in mind what the boss is actually doing, similar to how BLM has to keep in mind what the boss is going to do when they decide where to stand.

With the removal of positionals, regardless of your position on them, you cannot deny that it is a reduction in a job's complexity. With that said, why can I have a job that can be quite strict with GCD/oGCD usage (think Ninja when lining everything up for Trick Attack) but not have one where they can be strict in positioning around a boss? Monk used to have the most positionals, now it doesn't, it used to have things to keep it busy/things to keep track off for the whole rotation, now it's burst is busy, but only on even minutes, and the rest is bare.

As for the comment on amazing class designs without positionals, yes, that is true, I enjoy Dragoon and Reaper (have yet to level Samurai and Ninja), however, I also enjoyed Monk with it's many positionals as a change in gameplay. It is the option to choose between many positionals and less positionals dependant on my mood that makes the spectrum of positional requirements a good one. And, to turn your own argument on it's head, like it has been several times, if you do not like a melee with loads of positionals, you can play any of the others. As someone who liked many positionals, I now have nothing to play that fits that criteria., not that you care, you got what you wanted, screw everyone else.

Are you honestly gonna sit there and type all of that to tell me oGCDs are the same as positionals, where one of them is a literal keybind you have to press to carry out an action that does something meaningful AND has an animation for, while the other is you basically strafing left or right. Oh come ooooooooon...

[Navnav]

Is that a promise?

No, I changed my mind, I already saw some seriously questionable nonsense I had to reply to already.

[IruruCece]

No, I changed my mind, I already saw some seriously questionable nonsense I had to reply to already.

That's a real shame, you could have taken some time to brush up on what enrage timers are.

[Mikey_R]

Are you honestly gonna sit there and type all of that to tell me oGCDs are the same as positionals, where one of them is a literal keybind you have to press to carry out an action that does something meaningful AND has an animation for, while the other is you basically strafing left or right. Oh come ooooooooon...

They are both ways in a job accesses their power and at the end of the day, that is what matters. Reaper is a very heavy GCD DPS and Dragoon is more focused on oGCDs. Monk used to be a heavy positional job, it now no longer is, for no reason.

No, positionals do not have new animations, however, that is not why people done positionals, they done it to maximise DPS in an interesting way that is different to other DPS. Now, Monk is just another DPS that gets lost in the shadow of other DPS, with nothing to really make it stand out.

Just because you have a personal vendetta against positionals, does not mean it is a bad mechanic, the vast majority of people that contest the removal of them should be a strong indication and it is not just the English forums, the same is being said on the JP forums as well.

However, you have still failed to address my last paragraph in that, if you did not like positionals, you had other options, now, as someone who liked a heavy positional job, we have nothing.