Would this compromise for positionals work?

[IruruCece]

I'd rather have boss mechanics that require precise positioning and movement

This already happens.

[IruruCece]

Honestly, the real takeaway from this thread is that not even OP's personal cheerleader liked their last post ever on these forums.

[Navnav]

Just leave them gone. They are halfway there to actually doing something they should have been doing since the start - making jobs interesting to play. Positionals exist as arbitrary busy work and give the illusion of depth. They come at the cost of not actualy having something be mechnically engaging. The developers clearly took the lazy way and the community are begging for it. Crazy to think that in most other MMORPGs a lot players can see positionals for what they are, but not here clearly.

Guys, it is possible to have amazing melee class design without positionals, you don't even have to believe, JUST GO PLAY LITERALLY ANYTHING ELSE!

[IruruCece]

Another NavNav post.

Thank you, come again.

[Mikey_R]

Just leave them gone. They are halfway there to actually doing something they should have been doing since the start - making jobs interesting to play. Positionals exist as arbitrary busy work and give the illusion of depth. They come at the cost of not actualy having something be mechnically engaging. The developers clearly took the lazy way and the community are begging for it. Crazy to think that in most other MMORPGs a lot players can see positionals for what they are, but not here clearly.

Guys, it is possible to have amazing melee class design without positionals, you don't even have to believe, JUST GO PLAY LITERALLY ANYTHING ELSE!

Anything in a job is arbitrary busywork when you get down to it. Why have oGCDs? It is just arbitrary busy work to, well, keep you busy. Why have combos? Arbitrary busywork to keep you busy etc.

The difference is how these different actions keep you busy, whether it is building up stacks to progress to higher states of power, or in the old Monk case, keeping you moving and constantly thinking about how to maximise damage from where you hit the boss.

Also, define mechanically engaging. Is it doing things in a certain order to maximise damage, which is essentially all oGCDs are, or could you define it as doing your rotation around boss mechanics, don't jump at the wrong time, don't buff up before the boss jumps etc. If that is the case, positionals can be seen as a form of as mechanically engaging as you are doing your rotation around boss mechanics, whilst keeping in mind what the boss is actually doing, similar to how BLM has to keep in mind what the boss is going to do when they decide where to stand.

With the removal of positionals, regardless of your position on them, you cannot deny that it is a reduction in a job's complexity. With that said, why can I have a job that can be quite strict with GCD/oGCD usage (think Ninja when lining everything up for Trick Attack) but not have one where they can be strict in positioning around a boss? Monk used to have the most positionals, now it doesn't, it used to have things to keep it busy/things to keep track off for the whole rotation, now it's burst is busy, but only on even minutes, and the rest is bare.

As for the comment on amazing class designs without positionals, yes, that is true, I enjoy Dragoon and Reaper (have yet to level Samurai and Ninja), however, I also enjoyed Monk with it's many positionals as a change in gameplay. It is the option to choose between many positionals and less positionals dependant on my mood that makes the spectrum of positional requirements a good one. And, to turn your own argument on it's head, like it has been several times, if you do not like a melee with loads of positionals, you can play any of the others. As someone who liked many positionals, I now have nothing to play that fits that criteria., not that you care, you got what you wanted, screw everyone else.

[Navnav]

Anything in a job is arbitrary busywork when you get down to it. Why have oGCDs? It is just arbitrary busy work to, well, keep you busy. Why have combos? Arbitrary busywork to keep you busy etc.

The difference is how these different actions keep you busy, whether it is building up stacks to progress to higher states of power, or in the old Monk case, keeping you moving and constantly thinking about how to maximise damage from where you hit the boss.

Also, define mechanically engaging. Is it doing things in a certain order to maximise damage, which is essentially all oGCDs are, or could you define it as doing your rotation around boss mechanics, don't jump at the wrong time, don't buff up before the boss jumps etc. If that is the case, positionals can be seen as a form of as mechanically engaging as you are doing your rotation around boss mechanics, whilst keeping in mind what the boss is actually doing, similar to how BLM has to keep in mind what the boss is going to do when they decide where to stand.

With the removal of positionals, regardless of your position on them, you cannot deny that it is a reduction in a job's complexity. With that said, why can I have a job that can be quite strict with GCD/oGCD usage (think Ninja when lining everything up for Trick Attack) but not have one where they can be strict in positioning around a boss? Monk used to have the most positionals, now it doesn't, it used to have things to keep it busy/things to keep track off for the whole rotation, now it's burst is busy, but only on even minutes, and the rest is bare.

As for the comment on amazing class designs without positionals, yes, that is true, I enjoy Dragoon and Reaper (have yet to level Samurai and Ninja), however, I also enjoyed Monk with it's many positionals as a change in gameplay. It is the option to choose between many positionals and less positionals dependant on my mood that makes the spectrum of positional requirements a good one. And, to turn your own argument on it's head, like it has been several times, if you do not like a melee with loads of positionals, you can play any of the others. As someone who liked many positionals, I now have nothing to play that fits that criteria., not that you care, you got what you wanted, screw everyone else.

Are you honestly gonna sit there and type all of that to tell me oGCDs are the same as positionals, where one of them is a literal keybind you have to press to carry out an action that does something meaningful AND has an animation for, while the other is you basically strafing left or right. Oh come ooooooooon...

[Mikey_R]

Are you honestly gonna sit there and type all of that to tell me oGCDs are the same as positionals, where one of them is a literal keybind you have to press to carry out an action that does something meaningful AND has an animation for, while the other is you basically strafing left or right. Oh come ooooooooon...

They are both ways in a job accesses their power and at the end of the day, that is what matters. Reaper is a very heavy GCD DPS and Dragoon is more focused on oGCDs. Monk used to be a heavy positional job, it now no longer is, for no reason.

No, positionals do not have new animations, however, that is not why people done positionals, they done it to maximise DPS in an interesting way that is different to other DPS. Now, Monk is just another DPS that gets lost in the shadow of other DPS, with nothing to really make it stand out.

Just because you have a personal vendetta against positionals, does not mean it is a bad mechanic, the vast majority of people that contest the removal of them should be a strong indication and it is not just the English forums, the same is being said on the JP forums as well.

However, you have still failed to address my last paragraph in that, if you did not like positionals, you had other options, now, as someone who liked a heavy positional job, we have nothing.

[LeonKeyh]

Are you honestly gonna sit there and type all of that to tell me oGCDs are the same as positionals, where one of them is a literal keybind you have to press to carry out an action that does something meaningful AND has an animation for, while the other is you basically strafing left or right. Oh come ooooooooon...

One you press a button to activate and another one you situationally.....press a button to activate? Why is a binary "I press this button, I deal damage." somehow more engaging to you than "I press (and hold) some of these buttons depending on the location of me and my enemy to deal more damage." One of those things can be done in a vacuum, there is no need to be aware of anything except what button is next in your rotation. The other is based off of your location, your enemy's location, your enemy's positioning, and fight mechanisms.

[foehnweisz]

Are you honestly gonna sit there and type all of that to tell me oGCDs are the same as positionals, where one of them is a literal keybind you have to press to carry out an action that does something meaningful AND has an animation for, while the other is you basically strafing left or right. Oh come ooooooooon...

It's not hard to wrap your head around that "movement" have mechanical implication in video games. Just as melees are rewarded through optimal movement into correct positions, casters are denied movement in favor of pre-planning and shifting in between casts. And as moving out of attacks are meaningful in avoiding damage, moving to the correct position (applies to both MNK and BLM) are meaningful in dealing damage.

If you take away positionals, isn't that a step towards the MMO's of yesteryear of simply standing next to a target and spamming attacks?
FFXIV is a tab-targeting game at it's core, on top of being a MMO, and won't probably ever integrate movements required to a degree of action-rpg type games. But positionals I think is already a good compromise in a dated system.

And if you are still inclined to judge them as unnecessary. Then what is your solution? What would you leave in it's place having simplified one of the only needs melee dps movement in this game (besides target hugging)?

[Navnav]

Look all you have to do is try other games guys. Positionals are dead. Experience something else for a while to understand why this is a good step.
You are all whinging about the wrong thing. Moan at square to sort out their fights and to take more risks with class design. Dont complain to me, because im happy positionals are gone.

Again... they are a, quite honesly, rubbish design choice that they needed to do away with ages ago. Just be happy they are making moves now.