A few DRK abilities to which we will need quality of life changes to.

[J-Reyno]

The problem with TBN/Oblation is that they are both, together, flat out weaker than the other short-cd tank abilities. This is more obvious in dungeon pulls where 25% of your health is absolutely nothing for mobs to rip through, so TBN is destroyed shortly after you use it. And then it's buddy Oblation is less mitigation than Sheltron/Corundum at base, doesn't heal, and has a much longer cooldown.

The shorter cooldown of TBN doesn't make things better when it's almost immediately destroyed and the other tank cooldowns will always mitigate for a full 8 seconds. This means there's more of a 17-second downtime for those abilities.

Oblation could really use a mitigation boost (maybe 15%), a shorter cooldown, and a half-decent heal comparable to the other tank abilities. I'd prefer to see it buffed instead of TBN because it doesn't use a resource that's also needed for damage.

[Kabooa]

-[Roughly] 1500 Potency Shield

I keep seeing this figure, and I have to say, it's sus.

In i580, my Dark Knight (well all tanks) have roughly 72,500 HP, so blackest night will shield for approximately 18,125 damage.

My warrior's equilibrium (1200 potency) will hit between 16500-17500. Likewise, bloodwhetting's 400 potency is on average ~5700, or x3 for 17,100.

My initial guesses during media tour were that every 100 tank potency was roughly 1.8% of their maximum health, which actually puts TBN closer to 1350 tank potency back then. Using the above numbers from the live build to run this test again is 18,125 / 17,100 = X / 1200.

1.06 * 1200 = ~1270 tank potency.

So wherefore is this extra 20% being applied, and better yet, where's it coming from?

[Weetzlo]

I keep seeing this figure, and I have to say, it's sus.

In i580, my Dark Knight (well all tanks) have roughly 72,500 HP, so blackest night will shield for approximately 18,125 damage.

My warrior's equilibrium (1200 potency) will hit between 16500-17500. Likewise, bloodwhetting's 400 potency is on average ~5700, or x3 for 17,100.

My initial guesses during media tour were that every 100 tank potency was roughly 1.8% of their maximum health, which actually puts TBN closer to 1350 tank potency back then. Using the above numbers from the live build to run this test again is 18,125 / 17,100 = X / 1200.

1.06 * 1200 = ~1270 tank potency.

So wherefore is this extra 20% being applied, and better yet, where's it coming from?

When 577 was the max I just checked how much Souleater restored and scaled from there for a guess, then had my GNB friend do similar math with their heals and it approximately checked out (We weren't being super precise) and nobody has called me out and other people who have also been showing specific math have run with the figure so I didn't really question it. I'll go ahead and start using 1270 now though, especially since it only drives the point I was making further.

[Kabooa]

When 577 was the max I just checked how much Souleater restored and scaled from there for a guess, then had my GNB friend do similar math with their heals and it approximately checked out (We weren't being super precise) and nobody has called me out and other people who have also been showing specific math have run with the figure so I didn't really question it. I'll go ahead and start using 1270 now though, especially since it only drives the point I was making further.

To be honest, I'd just use %max HP. The shield value is going to fluctuate on a few things, because it scales with Vit, but not weapon damage, so applying potency to it is messy.

On non-tanks it's considerably weaker as well, nearly 40% weaker, where as flat healing potency is constant.

[Shurrikhan]

I love DRK, think people are exaggerating the squishyness, and even the Oblation is slept on, but it's not "something major" by any stretch

It's not, but it was just really weird to me that the OP pretended we somehow hadn't gotten anything defensive at lv82. A trait isn't inherently so much stronger than an extra, freely usable defensive CD that the latter ought to be excluded from the "what tanks got at level 82" conversation.

I agree that just removing the "or you die" and "healing cancels the invuln" aspects would probably be the easiest and most straight forward way to make Living Dead far more user-friendly. It does leave it a bit too much like Holmgang and honestly a tad bit boring in my opinion.

Doesn't that already go for every immunity?

PLD: Pure Invuln.
GNB: Pure invuln, but drops you to 1 HP to save a minute's recast time.
WAR: Prevents fatal damage.
DRK: Prevents fatal damage, but has a shorter duration, longer CD, and finds another way to kill you.

The later two tanks have always been clear templates of one of the prior two, and since Holmgang got its duration buffed, even it and Hallowed Ground feel barely different outside of the rare old raid from which Hallowed can prevent debuffs.

[RyuDragnier]

How about no invuln, but give it a massive shield instead. That makes it more unique. You don't have any ability to pause damage occuring, but you've got like a super blackest night on a long cooldown.

Hmm...an HP shield equal to your max HP? Basically gives you a second health pool for 10s.

[TouchandFeel]

Doesn't that already go for every immunity?

I'm not sure what you took away from my comment which you are quoting part of since the response seems to deviate from what I said.
I didn't defend the way Living Dead works so I don't see the need to reiterate to me the issues with it.

While simply removing the death penalty and early cleansing aspects would be effective at a base level, I would just like something a little more interesting and I happen to like the idea I presented, that is all. I'm not trying to argue with anyone or anything.

[Shurrikhan]

I'm not sure what you took away from my comment which you are quoting part of since the response seems to deviate from what I said.
I didn't defend the way Living Dead works so I don't see the need to reiterate to me the issues with it.

While simply removing the death penalty and early cleansing aspects would be effective at a base level, I would just like something a little more interesting and I happen to like the idea I presented, that is all. I'm not trying to argue with anyone or anything.

Let me be clearer, then. I just don't think, given that Living Dead already has a longer CD than Holmgang, it needs to diversify itself by way of penalty, rather than just by its compensatory bonus.

Your Dance Macabre lacks Superbolide's invulnerability (and therefore its rare debuff immunity), nets a higher HP cost, and makes use before swapping out more awkward than via Holmgang. It'd still be objectively the worst invuln, and yet without the shortest CD.

That's technically fine if made up for elsewhere somehow (without being overpowered in that compensatory capacity), but I just have to wonder... why not just let it be as strong as its CD would seemingly afford, especially if it's not going to tap into some new integral mechanic?

Edit: Nevermind most of that; I indeed misread. I'd still prefer Living Dead to simply be Holmgang-but-better (to a degree commensurate to its 25% longer CD) than Superbolide-but-worse if it's not going to go in some truly distinct direction nor capitalize on some new, integral mechanic, however. (Note Lyth's suggestion below. Now that looks unique, but also sufficiently strong to warrant its CD.)

[TouchandFeel]

snip

If that is what you wanted to say, why didn't you just say that?

Your initial response just went into a vague allusion that all the tank invulns are boring and basically the same and that Living Dead was the worst of them. Neither of those were things that I presented any argument against or even really went into, hence my confusion at such a response.

Anyways, my idea does not function the way you described it.

It does have the same type of damage immunity that Superbolide has.

Recovers HP to full and renders you impervious to most attacks for a duration of 10s.

You are set to full HP and then get the same immunity to most damage as Hallowed and Superbolide. I directly copied the wording of those abilities for the immunity description.

The ability then places a DoT on you that bypasses the immunity and does the equivalent of 99.999...% of your max health, i.e. would reduce you to 1 HP if you received no healing.
Functionally it work the same as Superbolide but instead of immediately reducing you to 1 HP it stretches that damage out over 10s. This makes it slightly more complex to heal compared to Superbolide because you would have to time big heals more towards the end of the immunity duration but that is the counter-balance to the shorter recast compared to Superbolide.

[Lyth]

I would imagine that the opposite of Superbollide is something like this:

Living Dead: Prevents most attacks from reducing your HP to less than 1. Any damage prevented this way converts Living Dead to Walking Dead.

Walking Dead: Renders you impervious to healing spells and most attacks.
Additional Effect: Converts a portion of damage dealt into HP.