Thread: A PvP Driven Expansion For 7.0

Originally Posted by Caurcas

As the title suggests, SE making 7.0 a pvp driven expansion would really shake up the formula and create many interesting opportunities.

The opportunity to get rid of its current player base and start from scratch like it's 1.0

PvP in this game is the worst I've ever seen for an MMO. Making an entire expansion based around it would be a disaster.

Sounds horrible, to be frank. In all honesty I've always hated PvP in MMOs, and PvP in general is something I try to avoid like the plague. There's plenty of good PvP games out there for people who like that kind of thing.

Josh explains the issue with PvP MMOs better than I ever could:

https://youtu.be/IFh-Y7sdXXQ
https://youtu.be/34RPwDfLpKg

Originally Posted by Caurcas

As the title suggests, SE making 7.0 a pvp driven expansion would really shake up the formula and create many interesting opportunities. First the more practical being that content would have a longer shelf life given it would be more player driven. Also it would make the open world far more interesting by during the boring, one and done zones into moving, contested fronts. They could even do monthly/seasonal rewards and titles for those that control the most land. You could also involve the crafters and gatherers by making economy player controlled. Making market board systems only work for friendly factions.

Lore wise you could justify it as a either a breakdown of the great company of Eorzea and other nations, or a scramble for the resources of the new world or southern continent. It would also open up role-playing opportunities by allowing players to settle scores with violence. I would even go so far as allowing war crimes and making a infamy/fame or hero/villain system to gauge rewards and standing. I mean, who hasn't wanted to commit warcrimes against the Lalafell menace.

Thoughts?

That sounds like a combination of the ideas used in Battle for Azeroth as well as New World. Which are both steamy piles.

Originally Posted by Bacent

Don't force PvP into the story for an MMO that never had PvP at the front of their thoughts. It wasn't even introduced until 3.3 so I'd bet all my money on them never doing that.

Lmfao what, ARR had pvp, it was called wolves den and easily my favorite game mode. Just feast without coins and only one life. Healer dead? Better hope theirs is too.

FFXIV it's not a PvP game, having a PvP focus expansion makes no sense. Just wait for Ashes of Creation or go and try Albion online (if you can handle full loot is a good game).

Originally Posted by Floortank

That sounds like a combination of the ideas used in Battle for Azeroth as well as New World. Which are both steamy piles.

Those are errors of execution and poor management/lack of skill, not errors with the idea or concept.

Originally Posted by Caurcas

Those are errors of execution and poor management/lack of skill, not errors with the idea or concept.

So your take is that the makers of the largest/most successful major MMORPG of all time...lacks the skill(whether through management or employees) to do this successfully.

And the largest/most well funded company in the universe also lacks the skill to accomplish this.

But FFXIV...a company that has shown it doesn't care one bit about pvp....they somehow have this skill to accomplish something no other game has done correctly? Cool story.

Originally Posted by Rhysati

So your take is that the makers of the largest/most successful major MMORPG of all time...lacks the skill(whether through management or employees) to do this successfully.

Yes... being good in 1 thing doesnt automaticly make you good in the other thing.

Lets for example take age of empires. As these games exist a long time and have varying results in how good they are:
- aoe1 was good in its story aspect, and decent in pve because it was new, pvp did ok but wasnt used a lot
- aoe2 was excelent in its story aspect, and in its pve. Even for lan and online it did excelent. But for pvp, there were a lot of issues that took several updates to resolve.
- aoe3 went starcraft style in making it very pvp focussed, and is the worst of the franchise by a huge margin. sure, pve worked, but that was because it had some sort of progression system. the HD version showed that without that system, pve is simply just boring.
- aoe4 is currently mainly pvp focussed, but with a clear idea that pve has to remain interesting aswel, they know compstomping is popular. They are fully aware that pure pvp is a bad idea.

Now look at starcraft. outside of pvp that game is dead. And even in pvp the game is very limited in who plays it. No new players are flooding in. Yet starcraft was deemed superior, yet now beated by microsoft

Originally Posted by Caurcas

Those are errors of execution and poor management/lack of skill, not errors with the idea or concept.

I played WOW on and off since 2006. PVP is all I did. 100,000+ honorable kills. I liked the PVP assaults in BFA. And that was literally the only thing in BFA that I did like.

Azeroth is factionalized, and it can barely sustain a conflict based world. PVP servers would see a 90:1 faction imbalance ratio, and were effectively always dead for one faction or the other. For all intents and purposes, no one wanted to PVP in a PVP based game, whose core vanilla concept revolves around faction conflict.

Yes, it took years and years of design mistakes to lead up to the point where a war based expansion also saw the complete removal of PVP servers and opt in world PVP.

And if a game *made for PVP* cannot actually have PVP forced servers because *no one wants to do it*, then making a "forced PVP" expansion for FFXIV, which is not built for world PVP at all, is like sticking a gun in the game's mouth. There is no surer way to kill an MMO than by forcing people to PVP.