No Public Beta Testing: good bad for the game?

[EverQuest]

If they could find testers for jobs like DRK where they won't completely twist the job for their own personal benefits, then I'd be fine with it.

I often watch a youtuber called Xeno who talks about the pros and cons of tank jobs and would love to see someone like him able to give a in depth opinion on the problems with the Tank classes to the devs and how to fix them.

That's like the opposite of who you want

[Awarewolf]

I mean because you answered your own question as to why PTR is a bad thing as it ends up spoiling the game for you months in advance rather than letting you experience it yourself when it releases. Also, as others have mentioned, why would you want to pay a monhtly fee to test the game for SE?

But I also said I wouldn’t mind a PTR as long as it was just to test job changes. No new zones, or story.

I’m paying my sub regardless. Whether it’s to test job changes after an expansion launches or to test job changes before an expansion launches, I’m still paying my sub.

I see what you mean, I just don’t look at it from that perspective.

[Liam_Harper]

PTR's in many games generally have far more downsides than upsides.

-They often end up as marketing tools in which streamers and big names are invited to publicize the game.
-Players tend to view them as early access.
-Developers rarely listen to player feedback. You can't design classes based on the wildly varied 5 minute first impressions and biased views of people with literally no qualifications in MMO class design.
-They spoil significant chunks of the expansion before it's even released.
-Raids end up being figured out and guides available well before release day.
-Bugs seem to be ignored.

FF14 has done very well with QA testing and the storyline and raids are actually a surprise. They have no need for PTR's. It would be a huge detriment to the game.

[Zanarkand-Ronso]

100% Good. Let EVERYBODY see everything new and for the 1st time.
All a PTR really does is Give Early access to some people and spoils everything for everybody else.

[Deceptus]

I much prefer SE's *solid* in-house QC and no-spoiler launches.

Lol? Solid? So many people in this thread who say SE has "quality QC" are clearly white knighting.

Yes this is copypasta that I've compiled over the years because it's been so blatant.

2.0

* Warrior was straight upbroken on release. We were told by the developers we were "Playing it wrong".

3.0

* Bard ability Wandering Minuet, which turned them into a caster, and made them immoblie which was completely against what their job used to be. Bards were the mobile job. That change lasted an expansion before they realized their mistake on went back on it.
* Astrologian was a mess on release, and was entirely too weak. They then buffed them to an insane degree and made SCH redundant. After the buff AST could heal / shield for more than SCH, instantly, and for less MP. Then after that AST was nerfed because SCH's were essentially shelved.

4.0

* WHM's were completely messed up. Their main mechanic "Lilies" were completely ignored by players. The SB media tour already had healer mains saying “No, this is bad; please don’t do this”. And the response? “Just wait and try them out.” After SB released: “No, this is still bad; please change it”. “Wait until Savage”. Savage releases: “THIS IS STILL BAD PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF THE TWELVE CHANGE IT”. While they did ultimately make the Lilies more interesting (after two years of players outright ignoring the core job mechanic), it’s still not great.

* SCHs were having to broil ( a single target attack) multi mob packs in dungeons due to the Miasma2, Bane, and Shadowflare (their AoE attacks) removal, had the least efficient shields and worst MP economy. They were thriving so much that they saw an across the board sweep of buffs and new abilities in patch 4.05 to try and fix the clearly untested and untuned mess that 4.0 had left them in. And no, they weren't small buffs and tweaks either. We're talking as high as +150 potency on a single target ability here.

* Tanks were a mess, especially [DARK ARTS] Dark [DARK ARTS] Knights [DARK ARTS]. They had the worst mitigation of any tank. outside of TBN. It was being used as a crutch.

5.0:

* SCH was a complete mess. The Devs removed Energy Drain which was the SCH main aetherflow dump as well as MP regainer. This caused a justified massive backlash from the entire healer community.
* Healers in general were extremely disappointed, so much so that players left the job in mass numbers and we still have a shortage.
* RDM's had extreme mana issues just doing their basic rotation. They would literally run out of mana playing their job correctly. Something as simple as ability MP numbers were released in a screwed up fashion.

Monks have almost always been in a bad spot gameplay wise.

Remember when SE thought it was a great idea to implement a GREED ONLY rule in all of the 24 mans? Yeah that was announced pre-patch and it was thoroughly lambasted and SE rightly had to reverse course shortly after implementation. Even knowing it was the wrong thing to do, THEY STILL IMPLEMENTED IT.

[VirusOnline]

But, it also meant that so many jobs were released with clearly unfair advantages and disadvantages compared to other jobs, something that would come up on a PTR.

This is a pretty bold claim. I'm interested to see evidence such a claim.

Any testing is good testing, especially if it's more testing.

The issue with this is that it assumes that all feedback is good feedback.


IMO, there should be no PTR. The current system works well.
It allows the team to have their singular vision and focus on that goal without being distracted by the playerbase's MANY opinions and MANY wants.
Deploy the team's vision and only then consider feedback and if they so desire - incorporate.

[linayar]

I’m paying my sub regardless. Whether it’s to test job changes after an expansion launches or to test job changes before an expansion launches, I’m still paying my sub.

I think the difference is there should be a certain level of quality/completeness that is to be expected from a released product.

The problem with public testing is that people will also complain publicly (sometimes without giving constructive feedback), which will also be met with "it's only alpha, wait until beta" or "it's only beta, wait until release."

Even in FFXIV, we apparently had issue with job changes in preliminary patch notes, which is why we no longer have them there.

When we get changes on release after it's been privately tested, at least we see the "complete" idea that the devs had and people can just respond to that. As long as they keep releasing at an acceptable standard of quality, I don't think public testing would be necessary and might even complicate the process, especially with FFXIV's release schedule.

[Shibi]

Do you feel FFXIV content would improve for having a PTR?

Bug wise, there are not that many. QA does a good job here, as opposed to those games who need to outsource it with PTRs.

As far as class changes, No, it would be a few squeaky wheels trying to change the game to suit them. Let the devs drive their own game and let us have the fun of trying to figure things out without spoilers.

[Espon]

Lol? Solid? So many people in this thread who say SE has "quality QC" are clearly white knighting.

These are design issues, not bugs. The PTR is there to find bugs so that they don't make it into release, not for huge sweeping job changes. Those kinds of things are done in patches. Making such mass changes in the PTR would likely create more bugs and delay the release date. Eventually they'll have to release the patch and people will still complain because things aren't quite balanced.

[Velnora]

They would have to have pretty extreme scrutiny in what advice they decided to take. I remember from my time in WoW, people would be extremely vocal about changes they personally wanted, but would be detrimental to the overall game... And then those changes would be added, and the game would suffer for it.

However, as the person who posted before me stated,

Lolwut? Blizz didn't listen to feedback. That's a primary reason why people left.