Genuine Scholar feedback

[Tobias_Azuryon]

Very confused on where you get this idea that SCH's pet AI is somehow worse when I played it all last expac and it feels noticeably better than it did in Shadowbringers.

Anecdotal feedback is what it is, but I'd rather have reliable snappy skills than fairy skills oriented on its positioning and movement any day of the week. For every single piece of opinion information there will always be a counter. That's why it's not the full crux of my argument but just a single aspect.

Also we're not talking about the entire kit becoming like SGE's, we're talking about ED and small adjustments to the class and/or its fairy/ogcd kit that will make it feel better to use (which again is player preference sure).

I'm not saying copy everything from SGE's kit but there has to be some middle ground between "Fuck it make them all the same" and "LEAVE IT HOW IT IS" and I'm looking for that. Instead of just saying "That sucks because it's like SGE" why not spitball other options or maybe go back and forth on further iterations to the kit? Why not provide feedback on what you'd like to do with ED that makes it worth leaving on AF when everyone will always choose damage over heals when/where they can for the most part?

I love SGE and will continue to play SGE but it doesn't mean I want SCH's to kick rocks and screw themselves. I want to discuss the kits after seeing SGE and new SMN and I think there's room to grow the kit that isn't some outdated premise of "Aetherflow needs to be on AF so I don't cap" or something new could be done with Aetherflow in general.

As for AF heals, I'm totally fine with SCH having a buff to its AF heals as one of my preferred changes would be to have a skill or skills on AF that actually provide shielding so they're slinging barriers more often (not OP but just more than one GCD worth/Seraph).

tl;dr We can do more with ED than keep it on AF "Just cuz" despite some weird idea of it being "rewarding" gameplay to that person, and the fairy and fey skills can be used to better add distance between SCH's kit and SGE's.

EDIT: To add some context, perhaps if the fairy were more responsive/snappier like the summons you could seamlessly transition between Selene and Eos to provide differing buffs and utility to the party like the SCH used to. I'm just saying we have options we could explore.

[Nizzi]

-snip-

I think that's fair. Obviously if they could make the faerie lossless I'd love that but I've noticed such an improvement with EW that I haven't had the annoyances with it that I did in ShB. Anecdotal evidence aside, I was really thinking they'd completely gut it in EW and I'm happy they worked towards improving it as well. The faerie is the reason I love playing Scholar and I would likely quit the job entirely if they did away with it or made Lily not do anything/just animations. I really don't like how Carbuncle just stands there with a dopey look on his face for SMN

As it stands with ED I'm someone who does like it, but I'm also not against getting rid of ED in a scenario where they replace it with something that does offer something interesting to SCH's kit that isn't just another 45s oGCD or something, and I think if the developers did that, they'd absolutely just make it "not-Phlegma".
As it stands though I definitely do understand the complaints about ED feeling underwhelming/irritating in comparison to SGE; especially with the 1.5s cast times in EW and the MP changes to SCH, Energy Drain is not as much of an integral component to SCH's kit as it was in ShB, as it was needed back then to prevent DPS losses on weaving faerie heals. In optimized environments its usage hasn't changed much, but for someone like myself who isn't "optimal", but tries to play to the best of my ability, I have found that I don't have as much of a need to "save it" for healing and movement like I did in ShB, and instead I can just burst it away.

Personally, I think buffing SCH's AF heals, or slightly nerfing SGEs, would do a lot to make the impact of ED feel less like a pain in the ass to some. The criticisms of AST/SGE being better at healing because WHM/SCH have to lose damage to heal definitely are true, so why not make the heal itself actually feel worthwhile to use and not just "let my AST/SGE cohealer handle it?" The developers seem to think that WHM is a monster of a healer, so why not actually make WHM and SCH monsters of healers? They seemingly understood this a bit with SCH and made Adlo better than SGE's equivalent, so this is definitely a direction I think they can head in with SCH without removing systems that are already in place.

In regard to your point about Selene/Eos, I definitely think they should! It's an easy way to save on button space and while I wasn't around for it, I would love to see it come back. Seraph has a 1 second delay from being summoned now to being able to do any actions, but outside of that in my experience she comes out pretty snappily, so I see no reason why they couldn't lean into Selene and Eos being distinct entities again. Just turn one of their buttons into a "Summon Eos/Selene" instant cast button like Summon Seraph works and go from there!

[rewd]

I mean you can call it "copying SGE" but I'm moreso about it copying SMN because SMN pet and actions feel 100 times better than anything SCH has or has had.

Fey Union being a big ol tether doesn't mean it's any less of a soteria, it's just in your mind that because it's "different" animation wise that it's different in execution. SGE copied SCH's homework and just changed a few things.

There's plenty that could be tweaked regarding Seraph and Dissipation and the fey skills that could set it apart, but imo the ai/fairy holds it back. We didn't have New SMN to compare to before and now we do.

Like it or not Energy drain as it currently stands IS "ogcd Phlegma" and Fey Union IS Soteria. Just because they make them "easier" or more reliable does not change this fact. ED keeping you from overcapping for a "whopping 300 potency" doesn't mean anything to anyone except for the SCH managing their AF. It doesn't "feel better to play" or "feel good to use" or "feel rewarding" just because you popped off some ogcds. I think making more options without tying it to AF is a better option personally.

Energy drain still generating fey gauge would mean more tether more often with proper control/management of your mp/resources inbetween heals possibly, who knows. Just digging your heels in and saying "I like the fairy" when the fairy is one of the worst aspects of SCH imo isn't really a good counter to me.

I think SCH can branch out and stop competing with itself with its kit sometimes is all.

It's not the first time your posts are full of inaccuracies.

You can delay and ghost skills on SMN. Ifrit-Egi and Titan-Egi are annoying. Carbuncle is a burden. I'm wondering if you actually ever played the jobs you are trying to seem knowleadble about.

Soteria is a fire and forget skill, a CD that is independent from the rest of SGE's kit. Fey Union is tied to Aetherflow and can be managed tick per tick. Both skills ultimately heal the designated target tick per tick, so they are clearly quite literally the same skill. Now that thanks to you I'm out of my schizophrenic loop and see things in my head no more, I see the light. Assize and Earthly Star are literally the same skill because they both heal and deal damage at the same time. Sure, you can detonate Star early and its potencies depend on when you do it, but if we ignore this, they are literally the same skill. If you think they have any difference, oh boy, go get that head of yours checked.

For being someone that really likes to use "imo" you sure as hell like to be dismissive of other people's opinions.

[Tobias_Azuryon]

For being someone that really likes to use "imo" you sure as hell like to be dismissive of other people's opinions.

Carbuncle is way more responsive to me and my friend who's been maining SCH since like....forever so I'm not sure why the accusatory remarks are necessary. Again, anecdotes are anecdotes. You may feel fairy is responsive, I don't. I feel Carbuncle and SMN is more responsive, you don't. Perhaps I'm not playing SMN "right" which is a very possible concession but both I and he think the SMN pets are way more snappy and responsive in comparison.

What someone "feels" is not invalidating evidence, but just information to explain the perspectives of said person. AF/ED > Fey Gauge is not the ONLY solution to that which is why instead of just like...screaming into a forum void we could be workshopping alternatives.

Fey Union is handled by "ticks" but also locks you out of your other Fey skills in the mean time. It's literally a buff to the PASSIVE healing of the target, thus the similarities. Dosis/Kardia heals are the passive healing kit of SGE. Fairy Heals are the passive healing kit of SCH. It's not a huge leap to make that conclusion and/or draw similarities between the two.

The fairy Tether is a toggleable Soteria (to me). That doesn't change or invalidate my perspective on it. It doesn't even make Fey Union "bad." It's just a comparison that we've spent far too much time and effort focusing on when discussing "homegenization" when just having an off and on switch isn't exactly the "variety" I'd expect people to champion for. I'd like to think we can aim higher than that.

I would more compare Assize to maybe Phlegma(?)for the "heal while you aoe/damage" aspect but if we want to be overly simple in our analysis we can make anything sound dumb by comparison, yes. Earthly Star/Sanctuary/Asylum/Kera are the "dome" skills that each healer has so I don't really see it as the same as assize, nor do I see a reason to compare assize as we're not currently discussing that kit.

While you are combative and explain my conversations as dismissive, I, too, can look through post history and see an unnecessarily aggro personality that I know I need to avoid engaging with in the future. While you're not outright saying I'm "objectively incorrect" you're not doing a great job of presenting yourself as the "bigger" person here.

While I understand the angst as my friend who's mained SCH most of the time I've known him has been so bummed he's not playing it as much now, I'm trying to look at possible solutions, not take a dump on other people and/or taking the worst read of their opinions.

You do you, my dude, enjoy ED how it is I guess.

[Silver-Strider]

It's not the first time your posts are full of inaccuracies.

You can delay and ghost skills on SMN. Ifrit-Egi and Titan-Egi are annoying. Carbuncle is a burden. I'm wondering if you actually ever played the jobs you are trying to seem knowleadble about.

Soteria is a fire and forget skill, a CD that is independent from the rest of SGE's kit. Fey Union is tied to Aetherflow and can be managed tick per tick. Both skills ultimately heal the designated target tick per tick, so they are clearly quite literally the same skill. Now that thanks to you I'm out of my schizophrenic loop and see things in my head no more, I see the light. Assize and Earthly Star are literally the same skill because they both heal and deal damage at the same time. Sure, you can detonate Star early and its potencies depend on when you do it, but if we ignore this, they are literally the same skill. If you think they have any difference, oh boy, go get that head of yours checked.

For being someone that really likes to use "imo" you sure as hell like to be dismissive of other people's opinions.

I don't completely disagree with their assessment though

Comparing Fey Union and Soteria isn't a huge leap in logic since both have a similar premise to them, which is to enhance the healing output of their respective job mechanic. Soteria being a Fire and Forget skill has some level of disadvantage to it since you can't always rely on it being available but Fey Union also has a myriad of problems with it that far outweigh its own positives. The biggest positive for Fey Union is the ability to stop it from overhealing by just turning it off but other than that, it really isn't that great of a skill. Being unable to use it while Seraph or Dissipation is active while also being unable to use other Fairy abilities without having to reapply the tether make the skill cumbersome to use. The slow build up to reach its full potential is also a negative since you have a finite number of Aetherflow stacks available to build up your Fairy Gauge, even with Dissipation and Recitation usage included; Maybe if the Enhanced Aetherflow Trait was still a thing it wouldn't be so bad but that's neither here nor there so I'm counting it as a negative.

As for Homogeneity of Healers, at this point, we're fighting between 80% vs 81% homogeneity. SE isn't willing to make healer's different enough to matter and any ideas are better than dealing with a clunky mess.

[rewd]

I don't completely disagree with their assessment though

Comparing Fey Union and Soteria isn't a huge leap in logic since both have a similar premise to them, which is to enhance the healing output of their respective job mechanic. Soteria being a Fire and Forget skill has some level of disadvantage to it since you can't always rely on it being available but Fey Union also has a myriad of problems with it that far outweigh its own positives. The biggest positive for Fey Union is the ability to stop it from overhealing by just turning it off but other than that, it really isn't that great of a skill. Being unable to use it while Seraph or Dissipation is active while also being unable to use other Fairy abilities without having to reapply the tether make the skill cumbersome to use. The slow build up to reach its full potential is also a negative since you have a finite number of Aetherflow stacks available to build up your Fairy Gauge, even with Dissipation and Recitation usage included; Maybe if the Enhanced Aetherflow Trait was still a thing it wouldn't be so bad but that's neither here nor there so I'm counting it as a negative.

As for Homogeneity of Healers, at this point, we're fighting between 80% vs 81% homogeneity. SE isn't willing to make healer's different enough to matter and any ideas are better than dealing with a clunky mess.

Saying that the skills are similar is one thing, saying they are the same and that the only difference is the animation while the rest is just in my head is another thing that shouldn't even deserve a reply.

[Sunhwapark]

The faerie is pretty fine atm or at least way better than shb and every expansion prior in terms of response time, you only get skill queue delays if you're issuing 2 commands simultaneously in a doubleweave window or issued a command after telling it to move somewhere quite far from its current position.

[Sighearth]

I made a topic some time ago calculating why SCH needs some slight tweaks to be able to heal as freely as SGE. TL;DR: Remove AF stack from Soil, make fey illum 10% damage reduction and increase WD potency in 200-250. That you way you can preserve ED for damage and still free healing on par with SGE

[Tobalito]

I made a topic some time ago calculating why SCH needs some slight tweaks to be able to heal as freely as SGE. TL;DR: Remove AF stack from Soil, make fey illum 10% damage reduction and increase WD potency in 200-250. That you way you can preserve ED for damage and still free healing on par with SGE

That much potency on WD is a bit insane but the fact that Whispering dawn heals for overall less potency over a longer period of time and doesnt give you 10% healing actions boost ON THE SAME cooldown as Physis 2 is just stupid

[Silver-Strider]

That much potency on WD is a bit insane but the fact that Whispering dawn heals for overall less potency over a longer period of time and doesnt give you 10% healing actions boost ON THE SAME cooldown as Physis 2 is just stupid

Adjusting potency numbers is an easy fix though and really, I miss the days when SCH had Rouse. I'd trade Fey Union for Rouse everyday of the week.