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  1. #1
    Player
    Deceptus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    The Goblet - 16th Ward, Plot 55
    Posts
    4,418
    Character
    Deceptus Keelon
    World
    Behemoth
    Main Class
    Sage Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Grimoire-M View Post
    Whole lotta words
    Dissipation will always be bad because:

    1) First and foremost the increased healing only affects 3 buttons on our hotbar. THREE. Two of those you rarely ever use.

    2) Even if you did think of it as a DPS cooldown, you are gaining a single broil every 2 3 minutes while losing out on passive fairy regen, and all it's abilities. Not to mention the plethora of healing you could be doing instead.
    (3)
    Last edited by Deceptus; 02-13-2022 at 09:32 AM.

  2. #2
    Player
    EaMett's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Posts
    1,430
    Character
    Ea Sin
    World
    Faerie
    Main Class
    Scholar Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Deceptus View Post
    Dissipation will always be bad because:

    1) First and foremost the increased healing only affects 3 buttons on our hotbar. THREE. Two of those you rarely ever use.

    2) Even if you did think of it as a DPS cooldown, you are gaining a single broil every 2 minutes while losing out on passive fairy regen, and all it's abilities. Not to mention the plethora of healing you could be doing instead.
    I mean. Dissipation keeps you from accessing your heals only on paper. In practice, you use dissipation when those are either already on CD or you don't need them. And these opportunities are sufficient enough.
    So ultimately point 2) is kinda moot. It's not a synergy problem, it's just a tool that needs planning (as it probably should).

    But yeah I agree with the other stuff. The tuning is completely off both on the healing bonus and the ED dps component. But that's really SCH in a nutshell right now.
    (2)

  3. #3
    Player
    RinaShinomiya's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2019
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    308
    Character
    Catherine Shinomiya
    World
    Lich
    Main Class
    Sage Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Deceptus View Post
    Even if you did think of it as a DPS cooldown, you are gaining a single broil every 2 minutes
    Three minutes, actually.
    (2)

  4. #4
    Player
    Imora's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2021
    Posts
    1,233
    Character
    Imora Dal'syn
    World
    Phoenix
    Main Class
    Dancer Lv 90
    When the hell are you getting to use ED? I'm still progging P2S and if I don't use them on heals people die.
    (0)

  5. #5
    Player
    Liam_Harper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Posts
    3,470
    Character
    Liam Harper
    World
    Zodiark
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Imora View Post
    When the hell are you getting to use ED? I'm still progging P2S and if I don't use them on heals people die.
    Taking a glance at your recent P1s kill, you're not utilizing your free oGCD's enough. For example there, you're missing 3 Dissipations and 4 Aetherflow casts, which is a lot of Aether heals and/or Energy Drains lost. You also didn't use Recitation, which is essentially a free Indom that always crits, Expedient: which is 10% mitigation, Protraction: which is free tank upkeep and you missed a lot of Seraph usage which means losing Consolation casts.

    By utilizing those oGCD's more, you'll have far more Aether to heal with, cutting down the need to use Succor too and giving more freedom to use ED. It's also a matter of practice and learning and mapping the fight.

    It also depends on your co-heal too. A good Sage or AST can heal the bulk of P1S and P2S without needing any GCD heals so you're barely needed for more than Broil and supplementary heals. A bad co-heal will end up putting you to a lot more work.
    (6)

  6. #6
    Player
    GrimGale's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    1,113
    Character
    Grim Gaelasch
    World
    Moogle
    Main Class
    Scholar Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by AmiableApkallu View Post
    Only if you're concerned about your personal DPS to the exclusion of all else. As a healer, you spend resources healing because you expect that the party's overall DPS will be better for it in the long run. The alternative is letting people tank the floor, which is a far greater loss to the party than the measly 85 potency you personally "lost" because you didn't cast four Glares instead.
    In savage, healing is basically worthless. The "mistakes" you can fix with healing or shielding are basically zero, since most mistakes will either involve a one-shot mechanic or an outright wipe.

    Sometimes, someone will step in the bad right before a mechanic and you'll essentially have a split second to throw an oGCD heal at them before it resolves and the next immediate raid-wide hit kills them.
    They may survive but they'll get heavily punished for it with damage down.

    So even in the cases where you can "save" someone, the person hit and the healer that "saved" them both got punished after the fact.
    (5)

  7. #7
    Player
    RinaShinomiya's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2019
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    308
    Character
    Catherine Shinomiya
    World
    Lich
    Main Class
    Sage Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Grimoire-M View Post
    *snip*
    If our ST Nuke being the most used GCD ability and us actively trying to avoid GCD healing didnt tell the devs we want more DPS options rather than healing options, what makes you think that giving more healers trade off mechanics will do that? The devs don't care and you ask for changes that make jobs clunkier to play simply because you yourself find enjoyment in it.

    I personally cant stand playing scholar for the things you tout as enjoyable game design. And it's not because i don't understand it, i do and thats why i don't like it. Having a "addersgall charge changes to addersting" charge mechanic would be worthless at best and disincentive using your primary healing source at worst. These conflicting priorities are what makes players hate the Scholar job rather than draw people to it. Meanwhile the devs couldnt care less about people using intended healing abilities as DPS abilities.
    (5)

  8. #8
    Player
    Silver-Strider's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    1,753
    Character
    Silver Strider
    World
    Famfrit
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by RinaShinomiya View Post
    Snip
    SCH is just a jank class that people have attempted to salvage as best they could and claim its all intentionally like that because of reasons. If that was even remotely true, the Devs wouldn't have constantly tried to remove ED in the 1st place and when that failed, they nerfed the skill to be as pitiful as it is today to try and disincentive its usage in ShB only to go about in EW making the healer cast time changes that once again encourages its usage as a DPS gain since SCH no longer needs Ruin 2 for mobility weaving as often as before. Healer Design as a whole is riddled with so many half baked changes that it's really clear that the Devs have no clue what to do with Healers.

    People are also so quick to say that SCH needs ED as an Aetherflow dump but really, it's 100% not needed. It pads SCH's DPS and allows for SCH not to need to overheal to get rid of stacks for when Aetherflow is off CD but realistically, that's just because the class is designed so poorly that it needs those things. If extra stacks of Aetherflow could be converted into an alternative resource that would benefit the SCH in another way, then that issue wouldn't exist and both Dissipation and Energy Drain could be changed or removed without issue.
    (8)

  9. #9
    Player
    Liam_Harper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Posts
    3,470
    Character
    Liam Harper
    World
    Zodiark
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Silver-Strider View Post
    SCH is just a jank class that people have attempted to salvage as best they could and claim its all intentionally like that because of reasons.
    Honestly, that's how I feel too. SCH's a mess and it feels like SCH gameplay is largely about trying to mitigate the inherent downsides, restrictions and poor design in order to try and make it perform well. Then many SCH players claim doing so is "engagement and skill". It's sort of like when WHM was clip-mage last expansion, you had that small crowd of players who would argue to the death that it was good design, more fun and a skill based class because you had to plan movement. Meanwhile BLM existed as a perfect example of engaging gameplay where you planned movement. But no, mandatory Assize clips, blowing heals to move and limping around the arena were "fine".

    There are better ways to design engaging gameplay than heal taxes, poor AI and half your toolkit vanishing because you pressed an oGCD. These just aren't necessary components of good class design.
    (8)
    Last edited by Liam_Harper; 02-11-2022 at 03:04 AM.

  10. #10
    Player
    RobynDaBank's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2021
    Location
    Wraeclast
    Posts
    1,521
    Character
    Hope Sunflame
    World
    Twintania
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 100
    Make Dissipation a union of the character and the summoned faerie: healing potency increases, Aetherflow is gained, and faerie abilities would still be usable, except their spread will be dependent on our position for the duration. Perhaps it sounds a little too OP coupled with the healing potency increase - but then again, it's not like that increase affects OGCDs, right? Dunno...
    (1)
    Mortal Fist

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