[ENDWALKER MSQ SPOILERS] Timeline weirdness

[Veloran]

An issue with the branch notion - Beyond the unsubstantiated nature of it - is the narrative implications in-universe. 8UC is basically a complete "bad end" for Venat right down to people again trying to return to the past over going forward in the future (and by his very nature G'raha is the biggest thematic walking contradiction in the entire universe) and despite the short story existing to try and suggest some hopeful future for it, the storyline of Endwalker would imply that it's completely doomed. Frankly the existence of that short story makes me think that they didn't know what they were going to be doing in Endwalker when it was written.

[EaraGrace]

An issue with the branch notion - Beyond the unsubstantiated nature of it - is the narrative implications in-universe. 8UC is basically a complete "bad end" for Venat right down to people again trying to return to the past over going forward in the future (and by his very nature G'raha is the biggest thematic walking contradiction in the entire universe) and despite the short story existing to try and suggest some hopeful future for it, the storyline of Endwalker would imply that it's completely doomed. Frankly the existence of that short story makes me think that they didn't know what they were going to be doing in Endwalker when it was written.

Which we know isn’t true after the interview with Yoshi P.

[Kordarion]

An issue with the branch notion - Beyond the unsubstantiated nature of it - is the narrative implications in-universe. 8UC is basically a complete "bad end" for Venat right down to people again trying to return to the past over going forward in the future (and by his very nature G'raha is the biggest thematic walking contradiction in the entire universe) and despite the short story existing to try and suggest some hopeful future for it, the storyline of Endwalker would imply that it's completely doomed. Frankly the existence of that short story makes me think that they didn't know what they were going to be doing in Endwalker when it was written.

I've actually thought some more on the 8UC being an entirely separate entity from our current timeline and I've come to realise that this could actually be a best case scenario for all of the time travel madness of the last two expansions. Keep in mind everything I say is just a theory.

If our universe and the 8UC universe were two separate universes in a multiverse then G'raha's actions in Shadowbringers are no longer him changing the past, instead its G'raha having travelled to an alternate universe and impacting change on that universe instead. This would mean that instead of three major instances of time travel, not including pandemonium because we still don't know that will fully play out, where two create time loops and the third changes time, we instead have two major instances of time travel where both create time loops and an instance of inter-universal travel. Meaning that the laws of time-travel are no longer contradictory, all you can do when traveling through time is take actions that have already occurred in your present.

Of course this then begs the question of how the sundering happened in the 8UC and I'm not sure how to answer that.

[Lersayil]

They sort of messed up with using both closed loop and branching path time travel concepts at the same time. The use of both lead to a myriad of questions and plot holes that have to be adressed on a case-by-case basis... which as of yet they didn't do. We can speculate, but the information just isn't there currently.

Personally I like the idea of Graha's timeline being a yet unresolved closed timeloop, but I'm unsure if it can be pulled off in a narratively (and logically) sound way.

[Ilenya]

Query. Why would the 8th Umbral Calamity timeline lead to the Final Days as we had in Endwalker? The only reason Fandaniel could do what he did was because we went and off'd Emet-Selch and Elidibus, who would presumably still be alive to reign in Fandaniel in the Calamity Timeine.

[Iscah]

Query. Why would the 8th Umbral Calamity timeline lead to the Final Days as we had in Endwalker? The only reason Fandaniel could do what he did was because we went and off'd Emet-Selch and Elidibus, who would presumably still be alive to reign in Fandaniel in the Calamity Timeine.

Short term, it probably wouldn't, exactly because the unsundered Ascians are still around and causing their own kind of trouble. What happens after the short story "An Unpromised Future" is entirely speculative and would have to take a different path to resolve first the Ascians then the Final Days, assuming that a new WoL did arise in the right place to defeat Emet and Elidibus in that timeline.

If it got to the point of Fandaniel putting his plan into action, Hydaelyn might make contact with this new WoL as best she can – and be a lot less cryptic about it when she doesn't need to avoid telling us things before our time loop resolves. In the other timeline she would be free to tell this future WoL about the Meteia and the nature of the threat they pose.

Different timeline, different path. But there would still potentially be a way out if things aligned right.

[Lium]

I really hope they don’t have the WoL go back in time and prevent the Final Days from ever occurring just so we can save the unsundered world because the characters are so popular.

Part of what makes them so interesting is their divergent responses to the catastrophe and the legacies they leave behind.

[LystAP]

I really hope they don’t have the WoL go back in time and prevent the Final Days from ever occurring just so we can save the unsundered world because the characters are so popular.

Part of what makes them so interesting is their divergent responses to the catastrophe and the legacies they leave behind.

We already seen their responses. "Our" Emet, Hythlodaeus, Venat and Hermes have already acted out their role in this timeline, and their actions will continue to be reflected in our history. Going back to change 'that' history wouldn't change anything that happened in our timeline, but raise the curtain for a new play and create options for the future.

We'll be able to see how they react to new information, get more details on the story of the original Azem, and other issues related to the Ancients. But I guess it's up to SE.

[Rulakir]

We'll be able to see how they react to new information, get more details on the story of the original Azem, and other issues related to the Ancients.

I don't want to get my hopes up, but I'd love to see it. I can't tell if they did too good a job with the Ancients or not a good enough job with everything else. I'm far more excited about the possibility of interacting with Emet & Hythlodaeus again than any of the Scions and the Ancient world is more fascinating to me than anything else has been since Ishgard. Emet listing off all the places we haven't seen on Etheirys didn't sound exciting on their own.

[Kordarion]

I don't want to get my hopes up, but I'd love to see it. I can't tell if they did too good a job with the Ancients or not a good enough job with everything else. I'm far more excited about the possibility of interacting with Emet & Hythlodaeus again than any of the Scions and the Ancient world is more fascinating to me than anything else has been since Ishgard. Emet listing off all the places we haven't seen on Etheirys didn't sound exciting on their own.

You might be more excited about interacting with the ancient world but not everyone else is. For me I would much rather interact with the cast of characters that has been built up for multiple expansions in our time than throw that all away for, relatively, new characters we have really only been introduced to since Shadowbringers. Emet & Hythlodaeus are cool and all but I find the scions, the eastern alliance and the eorzean alliance much cooler for the simple fact that god like beings who can solve problems with the snap of their fingers get really old really quick.