The dev team did a fantastic job on the MNK rework. I love it.

[Navnav]

Do you guys even remember how it started? About all the bs crusades to remove positionals?

NOONE has been an asshole in first instance. You guys just have been liers. You searched for arguments to get ride of positionals just to cater your own, not to improve the game. You´re just lazy to play them. You didn´t like GL, you didn´t like positionals, heck you didn´t like all what made MNK a MNK, but "you loved the aestethics".
MNK has never been a class for you guys, NEVER! Gameplay-wise it was so far away from what you guys wanted and ppl told you that. Hell, Mikey has told NavNav about 20 times now (atleast 5 times in this thread), that MNK has been the only choice to play if you want a positional-heavy job. Either no answer came or just "Positionals suck, lol."

You guys just have been selfish and you still are. Checking out your stuff and going through all your claims, you don´t even want to main MNK in the first instance and you guys aren´t that great on its execution. You do even claim controversial stuff for whatever reason. You guys had never any intention to look for a compromise or to play another melee which suits your gameplay-choice. Not even NavNav who loves DRG and its positionals, nono... better rework MNK.

So what?? Do you guys really believe you earn some respect after claiming dozens of bs, never agree to disagree and in the end you went into the first EW positional-thread to be like "Hahahahahha just fck you MNK Vets, go play something else now!" ?!

And no, you guys don´t want the best for MNK or the game, you want the best for yourself. More than enough MNK mains lost a class they loved and the game lost another unique option to play. Stop lieing to yourself srsly. Not any MNK main went into another class thread being like "I hate all about the class, please add positionals on it!", NOONE. And serious ppl can accept, when a class isn´t something for them, so they go find another one. And FF14 has more than enough classes, but nono... Ppl who never touched MNK all the way needs to be catered, nonsense, just nonsense...

What makes me actually LOL about this post, is that you actually make it seem like we rolled up in squares HQ all like "YOOOOOOOOOOOOO FAM, you lot better remove those positionals on that monk class so I can mock Ssbunny"... Like mate, you gotta chill. At the moment it seems like we living in your head rent free lmfao.

[ssunny2008]

What makes me actually LOL about this post, is that you actually make it seem like we rolled up in squares HQ all like "YOOOOOOOOOOOOO FAM, you lot better remove those positionals on that monk class so I can mock Ssbunny"... Like mate, you gotta chill. At the moment it seems like we living in your head rent free lmfao.

You´ve dreams lol. I keep laughing about you and your friend at best yeah. It´s a mystery that so much bs doesn´t cause a headache to yourself. Just because i write something down and you can´t accept the truth about what happened in the past, doesn´t mean i care about you in any way.

[Navnav]

you can´t accept the truth

Are YOU saying that to me? lulz...

[Lihtleita]

you guys think theyll give us a new positional heavy class or should i just give up on melee jobs?

[SineNomine]

Do you guys even remember how it started? About all the bs crusades to remove positionals?

NOONE has been an asshole in first instance. You guys just have been liers. You searched for arguments to get ride of positionals just to cater your own, not to improve the game. You´re just lazy to play them. You didn´t like GL, you didn´t like positionals, heck you didn´t like all what made MNK a MNK, but "you loved the aestethics".
MNK has never been a class for you guys, NEVER! Gameplay-wise it was so far away from what you guys wanted and ppl told you that. Hell, Mikey has told NavNav about 20 times now (atleast 5 times in this thread), that MNK has been the only choice to play if you want a positional-heavy job. Either no answer came or just "Positionals suck, lol."

You guys just have been selfish and you still are. Checking out your stuff and going through all your claims, you don´t even want to main MNK in the first instance and you guys aren´t that great on its execution. You do even claim controversial stuff for whatever reason. You guys had never any intention to look for a compromise or to play another melee which suits your gameplay-choice. Not even NavNav who loves DRG and its positionals, nono... better rework MNK.

So what?? Do you guys really believe you earn some respect after claiming dozens of bs, never agree to disagree and in the end you went into the first EW positional-thread to be like "Hahahahahha just fck you MNK Vets, go play something else now!" ?!

And no, you guys don´t want the best for MNK or the game, you want the best for yourself. More than enough MNK mains lost a class they loved and the game lost another unique option to play. Stop lieing to yourself srsly. Not any MNK main went into another class thread being like "I hate all about the class, please add positionals on it!", NOONE. And serious ppl can accept, when a class isn´t something for them, so they go find another one. And FF14 has more than enough classes, but nono... Ppl who never touched MNK all the way needs to be catered, nonsense, just nonsense...

Uh, wow. I just wandered in here and have no horse in this race (I last played MNK seriously in 2.0 and haven't it touched it but for casual play since) but...is this a parody of "gamer rage"? I admit that it's easy for me personally to not be passionate about something like this from the outside but gosh, I can't imagine an adult actually writing this. I can't relate to liking any mechanic in a game so much that the removal of (some) of it caused me to fly out of control like this.

Are a few skills losing a positional requirement so upsetting that you accuse people happy with the change of being lazy, selfish liars? Did I miss the part where this dude wished your family died or something?

[Taranok]

And no, you guys don´t want the best for MNK or the game, you want the best for yourself. More than enough MNK mains lost a class they loved and the game lost another unique option to play. Stop lieing to yourself srsly. Not any MNK main went into another class thread being like "I hate all about the class, please add positionals on it!", NOONE. And serious ppl can accept, when a class isn´t something for them, so they go find another one. And FF14 has more than enough classes, but nono... Ppl who never touched MNK all the way needs to be catered, nonsense, just nonsense...

Monk and Black Mage are 2 classes that, up until EW, shared the same common problem, and it's around this bit right here.

Nothing was dreadfully wrong with either of them, both have (had) been wallowing in stagnation for expansion after expansion because they were both being held back by mechanics that made them unapproachably difficult for the 'average' player to play.

In BLM's case, it's the AF/UI timers, which make the class so difficult to understand I still, to this day, see people chain casting fire 3 because they don't know better and can't understand the rotation, because the class has no structure, at all.

In Monk's case, it was around 2 things. Positionals, kind of, and Greased Lightning. GL was hyper-punishment on top of already pretty badly failing to play the class correctly. Get rid of that and the classes popularity already saw a jump. Positionals are a love-it or leave-it mechanic.

For a significant chunk of players, positionals are the single biggest reason we don't touch melee DPS classes. Actually, it's the least interesting aspect of any and every melee DPS class. If every melee DPS with positionals had them removed, the game would be a fair bit better off for it.

But the important thing is understanding that you don't just remove something in a vacuum. You can't "just" remove greased lightning or "just" remove positionals. Something needs to take its place. Which Masterful Blitz did. The first time Monk has had anything vaguely approaching a real identity was when they added masterful blitz to the class. Before that it was a fast positional masher with about 20 more oGCDs than it needed. For once, the class has its identity and for once, the class has seen an actual change for the first time since ARR came out that breathes fresh life and popularity into the class. And for the first time since Stormblood came out and ruined Ninja (for me), I can say there's a melee DPS I would pick as my primary. And I hate literally every aspect of Monk's thematics except its actual gameplay, so that says a lot when I say Monk is the only melee DPS I like right now.

[ssunny2008]

Uh, wow. I just wandered in here and have no horse in this race

It has nothing to do with "gamer-rage" or something lol.
It's just already a year of bs postings especially from NavNav. At any time one or another guy tried to reply serious to him, he claimed controversial stuff, has been completely ignorant or showed up like "You guys suck." with bis 1 sentence posts, because ppl disagreed. If i remember correctly, he even wanted to leave the forum multiple times, but is still here.
I wouldn't even give a credit to ppl like him in RL. He's a troll and the time for some respect is gone.

(And Yeah... talking about adults in a game like FF14, where dozens of ppl run around with half-naked lalas claiming uwu....)

[ssunny2008]

snip

So what's the point BLM is still BLM, but MNK not MNK? YP's class um?

I get your point, but there is also a significant numbers of players enjoying positionals. As been said dozens of times, we had only MNK as positional-heavy class, while other could've played 3 (4) melees with less positionals.

I've been told in old threads, that SE could cater any kind of player. How about RPR and SAM without positionals? NIN who would need to stuck behind the boss only? DRG stays like it is meanwhile MNK is positional heavy?
We would've something for everyone then. An easier and a faster class without positionals. A class which has positionals based on its lore, more or less... One slower class with a handful positionals and a fast positional heavy class.

Wouldn't this be a great compromise to cater the most ppl out there?! I've really never seen and old MNK Main being like "Every class needs dozens of positionals and top damage for being melee!". All what we wanted is to have our 1 out of 5 option, which is positional-heavy.

And no, MNks playerbase didn't increased with the removal of GL. Even now it's not a big deal and mostly played because it's broken.

Noone have even said, that Blitz is not a good addition. It would've been one with positionals. But as it is right nowy it's a joke especially for experiened MNK players. Nothing has really changed for us, we play the same as before, just with less buttons and less brainactivity. It's boring to stay half afk at a boss meanwhile spamming 123456. Positionals had a clear impact on the gameplay and funfactor for a lot of us.

(And yet ppl still complain about half of its skills, the timers, heck even PB... it'll never have an end until MNK got deleted i guess...)

Edit: Btw about all the fire-casters... it's a big part of games to learn your class properly. You don't even need balance or ACT to get it to 90%, ppl just have to read their skills and may try it out on dummies. The most just don't care and such ppl shouldn't be catered gameplay - wise. They're already catered with easy to go content. Whoever wants to get better and wants to play EX/savage, should start to practice properly.

you guys think theyll give us a new positional heavy class or should i just give up on melee jobs?

Unless MNK gets its positionals back, i highly doubt we'll get one. It would be just dumb to destroy a positional heavy class to create a new one 2 years later or so.

Instead of creating something new, which is gonna be simplified and homogenized anyway, SE should fix the current classes first and needs to give us uniqueness and variety back.

[SineNomine]

It has nothing to do with "gamer-rage" or something lol.
It's just already a year of bs postings especially from NavNav. At any time one or another guy tried to reply serious to him, he claimed controversial stuff, has been completely ignorant or showed up like "You guys suck." with bis 1 sentence posts, because ppl disagreed. If i remember correctly, he even wanted to leave the forum multiple times, but is still here.
I wouldn't even give a credit to ppl like him in RL. He's a troll and the time for some respect is gone.

(And Yeah... talking about adults in a game like FF14, where dozens of ppl run around with half-naked lalas claiming uwu....)

Ok, to be fair I have no knowledge of their individual history so that may change the calculus for sure. If he's an asshole it makes more sense to respond in kind...but I don't know, it still feels like overreacting. We are still talking about a pretty minor change in a video game. Even if you preferred it the old way, we are talking about losing a TINY bit of fun in the grand scheme of things. You are totally allowed to vent frustrations, but it's ultimately nothing to get too worked up over. If that dude is trolling I'd just hit ignore and move on.

As for the throwaway comment at the end, the game has room for lots of groups. I don't really think adults are the ones running around with half-naked lalas "claiming uwu". 1.0 released in 2010, so for veterans even if they originally joined when they were 13 they would be in their mid 20s now. And FFXIV has a lot of features that make it attractive to older players in the MMO sphere in specific (Ironically, this specific change here to positionals is a HUGE boon for the older crowd with slower reaction times, tanking MNK from close to unplayable to really fun. It's a shame it has to come at the cost of you and others enjoying the class a bit less though).

[Navnav]

It has nothing to do with "gamer-rage" or something lol.
It's just already a year of bs postings especially from NavNav. At any time one or another guy tried to reply serious to him, he claimed controversial stuff, has been completely ignorant or showed up like "You guys suck." with bis 1 sentence posts, because ppl disagreed. If i remember correctly, he even wanted to leave the forum multiple times, but is still here.
I wouldn't even give a credit to ppl like him in RL. He's a troll and the time for some respect is gone.

(And Yeah... talking about adults in a game like FF14, where dozens of ppl run around with half-naked lalas claiming uwu....)

How is it trolling to not like something? Is it because I hard disagreed with you multiple times?
Don't matter anyway, think what you want.