What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

[TheMightyMollusk]

And at any rate, the character limit prohibits me from making longer posts.

Editing your post bypasses the character limit.

[ReynTime]

No, my coverage was sufficient. You don't even need the Third Encylopedia for that information you think I missed.
It's within the game. And at any rate, the character limit prohibits me from making longer posts.
Further, I disagree fundamentally with your understanding of the story.
It only reads this way if you misrepresent Venat in completely bad faith and waving away the hubristic nature of the Ancients as being morally unassailable.
The story gives enough reasonable justifications for the course it took.

This is one of the most "no u" posts I've seen in the thread so far.

[Absurdity]

This is one of the most "no u" posts I've seen in the thread so far.

"Story's fine and everything you said is wrong because I say so."

[Shialan]

As opposed to the constant "Story is bad because I say so"?

[KageTokage]

I tend to see more actual reasoning and evidence at play when it comes to the critics.

Most counter "arguments" tend to boil down to "no u" and resort to shallow dismissive remarks like people lacking media literacy, not reading/bad faith reading, etc while failing to offer anything of substance.

[AnimaAnimus]

She could have been a real hero. She could have been their savior, even. Instead, she's responsible for more death in the setting than literally anyone else, responsible for more than even Meteion.

It would have been amazing if you could have gone into the past, met Venat, Emet and company, informed them of what happened and using that new information worked with them to destroy Meteon in the past causing a timeline split and then using that knowledge to work with our timelime Hydaelyn to save our timeline USING Zodiark and then freeing the ascian souls within which would begin to heal the land instead of killing the Twelve to do so. Then in the 24 man storyline the Twelve could have been revealed to be Venat's version of the convocation who now needed help overcoming some corruption created by the new influx of aether and souls from Zodi's destruction but after purified would continue to keep the source and reflection in balance.

That would have preserved Hydaelyn as a force of good, made Venat and her followers endearing and kept the mythos of the Twelve intact. It would have also opened up the unsundered world for more stories or side content later on.

[Vyrerus]

No, my coverage was sufficient. You don't even need the Third Encylopedia for that information you think I missed.

No, your coverage was biased and left out what Venat actually did. It's essentially a lie by omission.

Also, unfortunately, we're dealing with a game where a hefty portion of context and stories and character development happen in supplemental materials and online short stories provided by the game's developers. It's something I actually do not enjoy about XIV, since it requires extra purchases and reading beyond what's shown in the game.

You're welcome to disagree with me or with anyone, but if you disagree with what's explicit within the game and all of its associated stories, then you're making a fan theory, not covering the story.

Also, it reads that way 100% of the time even without the extra context, because it is a part of Venat's character that she, in fact, reads her own civilization in bad faith believing them to be beneath her to the point that she makes it her new life fulfillment to help them until they don't need her anymore. She tells the WoL as much on the rampart scene when she asks the WoL about the adventures that they personally enjoyed the most. Of course, I wouldn't blame you for missing it, since it's a one on one scene that spends the majority of screen time focused on Venat's eyes and facial expressions while she garnishes what she's saying in flowery language and proclamations of loving mankind.


Your own assertions of the Ancient Ascians being hubristic, and that the story had reasonable enough justifications for their extermination is laughable at best. Rather, it is Ancients like Venat and Hermes who were hubristic, believing themselves to stand above and apart from everyone else in their society, and then acting outside of that society's laws and customs that caused their downfall.

Venat by withholding information, stealing godmaking rituals, and then sacrificing her own followers to herself (and then, of course, executing her own people). Hermes by making Meteion to explore outer space and find not just one other civilization to ask how they live, but apparently all other civilizations as well.

Venat was pride. Hermes was ambition. Athena was both. And all three of these people hid their beliefs, motives, and desires from all the rest of the world. None of them were justified or could ever be justified.

[kyyninen_kirahvi]

I don't really know how to express my feeling towards the story of EW but I can say that I feel like it felt mostly like misery prawn. There was a lot of talk about misery and the theme was clearly nihilism vs hope, but the way it came across wasn't really that good. The end of Ultima Thule is a huge example of this. I'm not saying it wasn't effective, but that it was pure misery and loss for the sake of misery and loss. Dead ends is a beautiful dungeon but hammers down too hard how everyone is miserable everywhere in this wide universe and beyond. We know why abimonations are born but what does it mean to fall in despair in FFXIV is unclear.

I'm still wondering what are the clues for Metion that Yoshi-P hinted before EW. I thought the plot would have taken the more logical turn of Hydelyn is the bad guy after all the hinting. Hermes and Metion are not bad characters but feel like they don't belong in this story. As many have already said, they feel tacked on and hastly made. Both could have worked better with more careful writing. Even Athena would've made more sense and had had more clues.

I personally would have preferred if Sharlayan had been a nation that had found out about the ancients and had become arrogant. (So effectively to have no connection to Hydelyn and the excuse of 'we are building an ark no one knows about because...?') The pure need to protect and shield themselves from every and all outsiders as a nation is already something that is implied. Elpis should have been brought up earlier. Garlemald was OK but there's something is still bothering me... Is that whole area just an area for the body swap and a way to get to the moon? Lopoporrits were fine I guess but could have had a bigger role on the moon and as a whole.

One thing that annoys me is that this was marketed as a closing chapter but there wasn't really that much closing. Just finishing things and quickly moving on. What I mean by this is that e.g. the job quests got ther epilogues in Shadowbringers already. There weren't any kind of stories after the MSQ that felt like they were a closing chapter after a story. Just a quick new start. The Zero story line could have been that if it was better written and not just FF IV redux. I don't know if this bothers anyone else.

There were more than one good portion however. Not fan of the body swap but it's an importan scenario. Aitioscope is great. The Urianger scene in Sharlayan is great. The part with Quintus is great. Mother crystal (the battle) is great. The idea of Dead ends is great. I love the conversation scene with Venat. So it's not all bad.

[Swordsman]

I'm still wondering what are the clues for Metion that Yoshi-P hinted before EW.

Realistically, there are none, and it's because of this that some players complain about Meteion and dynamis being shoehorned into the story at the last expansion of the story arc. They absolutely feel rushed and out of place.

I thought the plot would have taken the more logical turn of Hydelyn is the bad guy after all the hinting.

That would've been an interesting twist if Hydaelyn actually turned out to be the villain, lol. I was actually expecting it to be a hostile alien civilization from a distant planet when Meteion became possessed at Elpis. As cliche as that sounds, to me, that or Hydaelyn being a traitor would've been a heck of a lot more interesting than bird girl being able to use sadness and despair to kill people.

Both could have worked better with more careful writing. Even Athena would've made more sense and had more clues.

That's true too. If Hermes, Meteion, and dynamis were introduced more gradually to the story rather than being thrown in at the last possible second, it could've worked a lot better, but I'm aware the story writers have a habit of winging it and will sometimes continue writing without having a proper long-term plan or outline in place.

[Boblawblah]

Venat was pride. Hermes was ambition. Athena was both. And all three of these people hid their beliefs, motives, and desires from all the rest of the world. None of them were justified or could ever be justified.

Venat was totally justified. I like her a lot. I cried when she cried