What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

[ReynTime]

I think it just comes down to a lack of consistency. We always knew that Hydaelyn was responsible for the Sundering, which in itself was always an act of genocide. It was just a matter of whether it was an intentional act or an accident - and quite a few of us were more than willing to give her the benefit of the doubt prior to Endwalker. As it happened, not only were her motives exceptionally dubious none of them hold up under even the slightest bit of scrutiny or would be accepted if they were instead aimed at the protagonists of the story. So I never got the impression that the story was ever going to be black or white even when we only knew some vague details.

I know a lot of people who only really started paying attention to the story during Heavensward and again in Shadowbringers due to the nuance that was present. Stories involving straight up 'good guys vs bad guys' only really work if the 'bad guys' are allowed to earn a victory from time to time. Sephiroth and Kefka are so memorable precisely because they 'won' to an extent. Yet the game's increasing aversion to anything resembling meaningful consequences for the main cast ensures that it's often difficult to care about anything that the Scions do. The game likes to not only clad them in ridiculous levels of plot armour but pretend as if their specific point of view is almost always correct.

Many other RPG's have more varied characters with different opinions, personalities, belief systems and goals. They may align with certain interests from time to time but it doesn't stop them from clashing every now and then. FFXIV is in dire need of more than that and although Dawntrail promises to go down that route, I'd be surprised if it didn't result in the Scions all coming to agree by the end of the base MSQ's.

A lot of people were also hoping for a more interesting cause behind the Final Days. Some sort of alien entity along the lines of Lavos, Jenova or Ultima would have been perfect - and arguably a lot more engaging than Meteion. Dynamis was also a rather grotesque element to add into the equation and one I suspect was only conjured up out of nowhere to try and justify Venat's actions as a 'necessity'. It's just a shame that the game spent a decade being exceptionally preachy and screechy only to fail to commit when it mattered most. It basically just revealed that the Scions have no real issue with the things they claim to fiercely oppose so long as the 'correct' targets are being wiped out.

Agree with everything except Ultima.
He really shouldn't be compared to Lavos or Jenova. Those two are more akin forces of nature that barely look like something you can communicate at all with, which is part of the reason why they are scary. Ultima "looks" scary but is a monotome blabbermouth.
His motives are more stupid than Meteion's, and he literally comes out of nowhere even after the tedious exposition dump he gives.

[Theodric]

Agree with everything except Ultima.
He really shouldn't be compared to Lavos or Jenova. Those two are more akin forces of nature that barely look like something you can communicate at all with, which is part of the reason why they are scary. Ultima "looks" scary but is a monotome blabbermouth.
His motives are more stupid than Meteion's, and he literally comes out of nowhere even after the tedious exposition dump he gives.

I agree, though I was referring to the Ultima of Ivalice rather than the Ultima of FFXVI.

I wasn't a fan of how the antagonists were handled in FFXVI but it does match up with how unceremoniously some of FFXIV's antagonists are cast aside.

[ReynTime]

I agree, though I was referring to the Ultima of Ivalice rather than the Ultima of FFXVI.

I wasn't a fan of how the antagonists were handled in FFXVI but it does match up with how unceremoniously some of FFXIV's antagonists are cast aside.

Completely forgot that was a thing.
My only experiences with Ivalice are Vagrant Story and FFXII.

[ReynTime]

Watched someone play through the 6.4 and 6.5 MSQ.

If this writing style is how Dawntrail will roll, that expansion's MSQ is going to be complete shit. If I wasn't doing something else at the same time I would have fallen asleep in the middle of their livestream. Fanboys get angry people praise Emet-selch as a villain, but look at how they handled Meteion and Golbez FFS. Utterly boring.

[Supersnow845]

I have to admit the entire 6.x patch story fell completely flat to me

I never played 4 nor do I really intend to ever play 4, normally me not playing an older FF game doesn’t reduce my excitement of the game; I just don’t know what a particular boss calls back to, in this instance I feel like I was actively punished for not playing 4

Regardless I feel this story ultimately has the same problem eden does; I’d you are going to tackle world altering changes you have to actually follow through and see some change, the first kinda did this with removal of everlasting light but eden didn’t actually change the empty as it stands now, I know it’s waved away as “it’ll take many years for the changes made in eden to spread” but it ends up just feeling meaningless. The 13th was even worse, half a patch worth of story about cross world communication to punch a hole in the void veil and that’s it, I was legit expecting them to pour the light of the empty into the thirteenth and see some meaningful rebalancing of both

So now the void is lost as a potential future interesting plot point because if we go back it’s only going to be either “void restoration” that probably won’t actually go anywhere or more about the contramemoria which could just be any old war on the source and it also feels like we wasted 5 patches to achieve functionally nothing

We now have what half a patch to explain why we are going to the new world next expansion; heaven help if 7.0 is 6.x 2.0 because then the game loses it’s one massive selling point—- that of a halfway decent story in an MMO

[Theodric]

The Twelve were just wasted on something that ended up being wholly inconsequential. I was rolling my eyes and laughing at how they seriously pulled out the predictable 'ur so amazing and they luv mortals liek u' trope. It's telling that the game ignores that the player character and their allies are not actually acting as authentic mortals given that they're frequently empowered by third party sources.

[Supersnow845]

The Twelve were just wasted on something that ended up being wholly inconsequential. I was rolling my eyes and laughing at how they seriously pulled out the predictable 'ur so amazing and they luv mortals liek u' trope. It's telling that the game ignores that the player character and their allies are not actually acting as authentic mortals given that they're frequently empowered by third party sources.

As soon as they announced the myths of the realm after elpis it was telegraphed so damn hard that the 12 would want to return to the star considering anyone could see that the 12 + the watcher basically formed venat’s “convocation”

About the only mystery that was ever present was if us fighting them was a way to help them return to the star or if they just wanted a last hoorah before they disappeared

A shockingly boring storyline for a raid series that has been all style and no substance (bonus points for quite possibly the three most interesting of the 12 being left to have like 2 lines before the raid started (ignoring deryk as deryk) while we get 3 whole raid series with ralghr and 2 with althylk)

[OdinelStarrei]

Man, I really wish I wasn't a void/shard enthusiast pre-6.X. Like, really getting into the lore regarding the 13th, why Voidwalker was a thing back in E2, who Erebos was, looking into things like voidsent hierarchy.

Like, you have any idea how absolutely hyped I was when we got those void quests as a reward for doing all the ShB role quests? And it started to blend things together from previous expansions with characters that because of the role quests and the history of the First, I actually really cared about? I am never going to see the void given justice now. And that's the worst part. Every single time the quests on the First updated, I went STRAGIHT back to Cylva and Unukalhai and I BEGGED them to say something to Zero, PLEASE just let me show you what we've been up to, I HAVE an Oracle of Darkness and Light on the First, we are going back to fight this giant voidsent named after a "hero of eld" that I have no idea of the backstory for outside of present circumstance with Azdaja! Why is this being handwaved, even if it's optional content? And I get to the end of this nightmare, and Odinel says "Hey, I should tell you about Cylva and Unukalhai" and Zero is SURPRISED they even EXIST. And I'm just sitting there like, WHAT DO YOU MEAN? Why didn't I mention them? Why didn't Ben Leqq or Y'shtola mention them? Why didn't I TELL GOLBEZ that they were ALSO tricked by the Ascians? What happened with the Shadowkeeper and subsequently, Eden itself, if I told Golbez what happened THREE patches ago, would we be in this mess at all? Of course you were tricked by the Ascians, who wasn't at this point, good god, at least he killed every Lopporit on the moon if they existed over there. Why have I been sitting on this crucial, critical information for FOUR PATCHES? Am I stupid? Stuff like this breaks my immersion with my character, I would absolutely 100% try to get everyone on the same page with this, it's THEIR world we're trying to restore!

I don't care that people haven't done the pre-requisite content! Shadowbringers ITSELF would not have happened without Alexander and Omega being CANON events! Stop wasting your own world building! Why would you write it like this?

I get a taste of what the Thirteenth could've been like, and it's all in flashbacks or memories. The story of that doomed world and it's future complexities effectively solved because Zero learned how to have friends and trust others.

Oh god, why did I even get invested in this plot eight years ago, what a massive mistake on my part.

[Supersnow845]

^squares insistence on ignoring points that are optional content is becoming a problem as the game gets bigger and bigger and more and more threads are being tied up in side content which they continue to just ignore

There was literally no reason to not include Gaia as centre stage for 6.5, if you haven’t done eden, tough shit, they can add some extra dialogue explaining her at a later date, or just out a stipulation when you accept the quest that we STRONGLY recommend you do eden before you progress any further, we literally had zero in the crystarium and we still ignored the others

It’s reached a point that I almost don’t want them to out interesting stuff in side content because it means that it can’t be in the MSQ anymore

[Theodric]

Oh god, why did I even get invested in this plot eight years ago, what a massive mistake on my part.

They tricked a lot of us into thinking they were bringing some much needed consistency and depth to the table in terms of world building only for most of it to be unceremoniously and rather hastily cast aside or simply ignored outright.