What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

[ReynTime]

To be fair, since it "works so well" in the well received XIV, they probably don't realize it's a bad thing.

The praise XVI gets is about as credible as the praise Endwalker gets IMHO. The game isn't that fun and its setting is the most creatively bankrupt setting in the franchise.
Thankfully it's not doing as well as SE wanted.
https://www.videogameschronicle.com/...d-expecations/

[Amnmaat]

Am I the only one who's tired of saturday morning cartoon script writing?

This is all the scripts in xiv since around shadowbringers:

Person A: I'm not good enough, I'm not good enough for my friends, I always fail them
Person B: With the power of friendship and being there for each other we'll save the world
Person A: You're right, I can TRUST you now, let's use our friendship to win this battle

Even the Moonfire Faire was this nonsense again.

We went from a crying male Miqo'te who's failed his whole life to get through the summer circuit for 3-4 years straight, to this new clown who's failed his friends when he started out as an adventurer.

Can we please get adult script writing again? Stuff that's unique, DIFFERENT, and memorable? What happened with square enix? I remember during realm reborn and heavensward, and even parts of stormblood they were always looking for deep narratives and characters.

dawntrail won't be any better; now they're just going full hollywood and copying movies like el dorado with the "we're here for gold" saturday morning cartoon tropes.

[Vyrerus]

The praise XVI gets is about as credible as the praise Endwalker gets IMHO. The game isn't that fun and its setting is the most creatively bankrupt setting in the franchise.
Thankfully it's not doing as well as SE wanted.
https://www.videogameschronicle.com/...d-expecations/

I had a lot of fun with it, outside of the majority of its side quests.

I'd also take the articles coming out around it hating on it with a grain of salt. Because it's a mainline entry and not an MMO, there's a big push by Western markets to downplay it as much as possible. This has been going on since FFXI with every new Final Fantasy entry. And it always seems more deserved if part of the Final Fantasy fanbase is up in arms over a factor in its release.

Of course, I'm not saying it's a masterpiece or the best game I've ever played, but I think its scores of an 8/10 are fairly accurate. I do wish it were better. I'm sure it would have seen better sales numbers if they hadn't taken that Sony bribe to make it PS5 exclusive. If it had at least come out on PC as well, then a large leg of its haters would have bought it right up.

It also got a target painted on its back early when SJW journalists criticized the design choices of Yoshi-P and CBU3 to not force in diversity and inclusion.

As it stands, Hironobu Sakaguchi gives it high praise. I don't regret my purchase.

[Amnmaat]

I had a lot of fun with it, outside of the majority of its side quests.

I'd also take the articles coming out around it hating on it with a grain of salt. Because it's a mainline entry and not an MMO, there's a big push by Western markets to downplay it as much as possible. This has been going on since FFXI with every new Final Fantasy entry. And it always seems more deserved if part of the Final Fantasy fanbase is up in arms over a factor in its release.

Of course, I'm not saying it's a masterpiece or the best game I've ever played, but I think its scores of an 8/10 are fairly accurate. I do wish it were better. I'm sure it would have seen better sales numbers if they hadn't taken that Sony bribe to make it PS5 exclusive. If it had at least come out on PC as well, then a large leg of its haters would have bought it right up.

It also got a target painted on its back early when SJW journalists criticized the design choices of Yoshi-P and CBU3 to not force in diversity and inclusion.

As it stands, Hironobu Sakaguchi gives it high praise. I don't regret my purchase.

Yes, blame the game's "not selling as expected" on people who don't want forced european inclusion. Last time I checked human-toads and blue men with red afros didn't exist in medieval europe, yet ffix managed to include them. Now the question to be asked, maybe yoship's comments and decisions backfired and alienated people from not buying it? I would argue, yes according to population data globally.

I rate this bait a Trolling Bobber out of 10. It might catch some really dumb fish, but that fish ain't me!

Caught you good. Chaired down to the ground so badly all you have left is ad hominem.

[Vyrerus]

Yes, blame the game's "not selling as expected" on people who don't want forced european inclusion. Last time I checked human-toads and blue men with red afros didn't exist in medieval europe, yet ffix managed to include them. Now the question to be asked, maybe yoship's comments and decisions backfired and alienated people from not buying it? I would argue, yes according to population data globally.

I rate this bait a Trolling Bobber out of 10. It might catch some really dumb fish, but that fish ain't me!

[Vyrerus]

Caught you good. Chaired down to the ground so badly all you have left is ad hominem.

Oh yes. I'm just absolutely malding. Completely caught in your sway. Erect with anger!

[ReynTime]

I had a lot of fun with it, outside of the majority of its side quests.

I'd also take the articles coming out around it hating on it with a grain of salt. Because it's a mainline entry and not an MMO, there's a big push by Western markets to downplay it as much as possible. This has been going on since FFXI with every new Final Fantasy entry. And it always seems more deserved if part of the Final Fantasy fanbase is up in arms over a factor in its release.

Of course, I'm not saying it's a masterpiece or the best game I've ever played, but I think its scores of an 8/10 are fairly accurate. I do wish it were better. I'm sure it would have seen better sales numbers if they hadn't taken that Sony bribe to make it PS5 exclusive. If it had at least come out on PC as well, then a large leg of its haters would have bought it right up.

It also got a target painted on its back early when SJW journalists criticized the design choices of Yoshi-P and CBU3 to not force in diversity and inclusion.

As it stands, Hironobu Sakaguchi gives it high praise. I don't regret my purchase.

Sakaguchi also praised XIII at the time.

There isn't any agenda against the game. It's a derivative experience that does every aspect of the games it was inspired by worse than the sources, on top of having the most generic setting of the franchise.
People love to defend saying it's inspired by Berserk... but Berserk doesn't pull punches. XVI meanwhile always backs off to keep the same hopefulness feeling that likes of Endwalker have so it doesn't get too gloomy.
People love to defend the combat saying it's inspired by DMC... but Devil may cry isn't an auto-attack tab-target MMO masking its auto attack in form of mash attack buttons that deal tiny chip damage, and DMC actually has depth and shines in being very freeform.
They couldn't even think of any creative way to include crystals in the setting. Literally people just hold the thing to use it like some magical Alexa. Remove the barely visible crystals and chocobos and Valisthea could as well be some bland medieval setting generated by AI.

The game only gets some praise because it has the Final Fantasy name, there are easter eggs and very surface level references to make them feel special for recognizing them, and Yoshi-P simps supporting it. Remove the brand and no one would care. It would have been a niche action game designed like some claustrophobic, hallway-fest Xbox 360 Devil May Cry like taking place in a forgetful setting full of invisible walls everywhere, battle encounters and loot that are practically useless and just waste your time, and an equipment system so pointless that makes XIV's gearing seem deep by comparison.

SE has the history, experience and resources to do much better. If it was any other company it would be a sub 80 metacritic game. The ONLY thing XVI has going for it is the narrative, which even rethreads other recent games' plot twists, and the fact it's a finished game, for what's worth.


Anyway I'm preaching the choir here. This is a Square-Enix forum after all. I just despise what their AAA projects become most of the time, how their game design doesn't evolve at all but the cinematics and their late catch-up to decade old trends. Or how people who claim to be fans of the jRPG genre will throw money at their overhyped, overbudgeted, but ultimately shallow triple A releases while ignoring the franchises or stand-alone from the other publishers and indie studios that actually try to advance the sub genre forward.

[Vyrerus]

Sakaguchi also praised XIII at the time

Did he? All I remember is him saying he thought Final Fantasy was in good hands, speaking well of its director, not of the game itself. But I wasn't as tuned into who was doing what back then.

Also I disagree. There's completely an agenda against the game. It's been generating negative buzz from game journos since its second trailer, or at least well before it actually released. Only part of it that felt derivative to me were the QTEs during the Eidolon battles. And the movie play intro.

It's more of a love letter to A Story of Fire and Ice. Doesn't really have a lot in common with Berserk. I've not seen that levied in my circles.

It only really backs off the bleakness for the main cast, as they become powerful(Clive is Le Chosen One), but at least their powers come at a cost that never fell out of my mind. It certainly wasn't a consequence free apocalypse like in EW for them. I've even seen some folks unconsolably upset at the open ended ending because it read as total downer territory to them (even though it wasn't, though it can't be said that everyone made it out ok).

As far as the combat goes, I felt it was pretty fun. There's a lot you can do and mix up once you have all of the Eikons, and Ongbal found it fun enough to post fights about it to his almost strictly Souls Youtube channel.

Mmmm, did you play it very long or at all? Crystals in the setting are mined. They are held in the hand to perform magic by people who otherwise can't/won't, but they are also put into buckets, at the head of wells, used as refrigerant, and a few other things. Tell me an entry in the series that even goes that far with them outside of this. The only other entry in the series that I'm aware of is XI where you see the crystal just before synthesis animations start. The setting's real lack imo is that there are, "Fallen Ruins" everywhere, but you only get to go through a couple of them. Then you get a steamship, but you don't get to control where it goes, really.

I say the opposite. The game gets as much hate as it's getting, because it has the Final Fantasy name. There's a bunch of Final Fantasy fans that want to hate it, because it's another entry that denies them what they believe Final Fantasy should be, and it probably has the elements that feel vestigial in it, because it can't afford to fully depart from Final Fantasy staples. Though, you can actually do a few nifty builds using the right accessories. There is a strongest meta build and skillset that eclipse everything else that get to weigh up against whacky silly builds that have little to no synergy.

Final Fantasy has been nothing but evolution the whole series run. People take umbrage with it because it eventually departed from the old style. It is the epitome of, "Please try new things! No, not like that!" meme.

[Theodric]

Well, since DLC is basically confirmed perhaps FFXVI can be 'fixed' in a similar manner to FFXV with the equivalent of the 'Royal Edition'. As far as the next mainline title is concerned, I don't expect it anytime soon but I do hope it goes back to its roots. Even if it doesn't, with the success of Baldur's Gate 3 I expect we'll see a lot of games inspired by that over the next decade or so. So we'll get our fantasy fix one way or another.

[BRVV]

Also I disagree. There's completely an agenda against the game. It's been generating negative buzz from game journos since its second trailer, or at least well before it actually released. Only part of it that felt derivative to me were the QTEs during the Eidolon battles. And the movie play intro.

You mean the lacking diversity? If you look at the big picture FFXVI has a LOT of positive buzz around it. Hyped to no end before release, like it would save gaming or something.