What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

[Striker44]

Uh. Disco Elysium, Planescape Torment, Night in the Woods, Outer Wilds, Pathologic 2, Spiritfarer, and I would say even Mass Effect, Dragon Age, Divinity II, Pillars of Eternity, Pentiment, etc, are all video-games with amazing stories, better than some books I've read. Acting like you can't criticize the plot of something because it is a "game" is such a narrow vision of what games can offer. This whole "you shouldn't take games seriously" are simply excuses to not think critically about stuff, which if it works for you... Wonderful, but that doesn't mean that they shouldn't be taken seriously at all. They're pieces of art and entertainment with a lot of possibilities. I'm sorry for you if you're not able to see this, you're honestly missing out.

Like, people have dedicated hours and hours to read the story, if you start the game now it'll take you MONTHS to catch up with the current story if you decide to read it and you can't think critically of this? The expansion biggest selling point is literally the story and you can't... take it seriously? LOL I'm literally reading a biggest amount of text than the entire Wheel of Time series combined and I should not think too much because it's just a game?

As of Endwalker: did I enjoy it? Yeah, but, at the same time, I can't think deeply about it. I have to enjoy it in a very superficial level otherwise the plot holes pop up constantly and I feel like most people find it the most amazing thing ever because they have no baggage. It's like the crowd that only reads Harry Potter and think it's the most amazing fantasy ever, because they haven't even touched Ursula Le K. Guin, Diana Wynne Jones, etc.

When you reach the point of putting words in someone's mouth in an attempt to have an argument, you only serve to admit that you have none. Nowhere did I say someone can't take a video game story "seriously" - I said there's such a thing as expecting a masterpiece when there's no practical or realistic reason to expect one. Personally, I would put FFXIV's story (EW included) right up there with Dragon Age, Homeworld, and the like. I think the story is amazing, and it's obvious why it's a selling point for the game. Again, though - "amazing" for a video game doesn't mean "one of the greatest works of lore and literature ever produced by humanity." When you set such unrealistic expectations, the only natural end result is disappointment.

[Absimiliard]

Dude, people are still writing Reylo fanfics and creating headcanons till this day, long after the last movie of the new star wars trilogy. If you think that someone passionate about a particular story has an empty life... You're in for a surprised tbh.

Why? Why did you have to remind me those movies existed? Dammit. I need brain bleach now.

[Vyrerus]

When you reach the point of putting words in someone's mouth in an attempt to have an argument, you only serve to admit that you have none..

When you deny what you clearly imply, it only serves to show just how disingenuous you are with discussion you bring to the table.

Ok, so you didn't verbatim say, "You shouldn't take a video game story seriously." But you derided anybody who, in your opinion, is way too serious about games, implying that taking a video game's story seriously at all is negative. As if how good a story is or is not, isn't subjective to its beholder. Same goes for how seriously someone takes it. Regardless of its medium.

[Melorie]

When you reach the point of putting words in someone's mouth in an attempt to have an argument, you only serve to admit that you have none. Nowhere did I say someone can't take a video game story "seriously" - I said there's such a thing as expecting a masterpiece when there's no practical or realistic reason to expect one. Personally, I would put FFXIV's story (EW included) right up there with Dragon Age, Homeworld, and the like. I think the story is amazing, and it's obvious why it's a selling point for the game. Again, though - "amazing" for a video game doesn't mean "one of the greatest works of lore and literature ever produced by humanity." When you set such unrealistic expectations, the only natural end result is disappointment.

You were the one that said, and I quote:

A common thread I seem to find running through the complaints are people taking a video game way too seriously imo.

Not me. So maybe think twice if you really meant that.

Besides, I haven't even seen people comparing the game writing to other literature nor making giant, impossible requests regarding what the story should have been.

800 pages of discussion and I doubt you had a good amount of people comparing it to LOTR, or Dostoiévski or any other reverencied work. The game sells huge expensive encyclopedias and market itself around it's lore and you're surprised people are discussing it deeply? They are reading a story for years and just because they have certain expectations in how it would end or want the answer for certain plot hole doesn't really means that they are putting insuferable expectations upon it. Besides, you keep talking about how "they shouldn't expect it from a game", so your point regarding how the quality of gaming writing shouldn't be looked with the same respect and thus expectation that other media does keeps repeating itself, and *probably* because you can't understand why people would consume a history with critical lenses. You're literally telling people they shouldn't complain because this is a video-game, that makes no sense.

Also, Disco Elysium is a treasure to the humanity when it comes to writing and so is Planescape Torment so, yeah. Are you from the same crowd that are impressed when cartoons/animation deals with deep, "adult" problems as well? Because it's the same discourse.

Why? Why did you have to remind me those movies existed? Dammit. I need brain bleach now.

LMAO At least it made a eternal impression on you.

[BRVV]

5.0 dropped more than a year ago, unless your life is so empty I think you'd best move on more so if you believe nobody is hearing you.

*6.0. Also what Melorie said. Also also a lot the recent posts are about 6.x stuff. 6.3 dropped way less than a year ago ^^

Just wondering: do you tell this also in topics praising EW?

[AwesomeJr44]

When you reach the point of putting words in someone's mouth in an attempt to have an argument, you only serve to admit that you have none.

Aren't you the guy who thinks "muh majoritah" is an argument worth listening to?

[PeaTearGriffin]

He would also deflect some of the questions by saying things like "when you're making this world you'll just sort of sometimes ignore things that are inconvenient" (4:25:35) and "I think you guys can come up with your own theories for this one" (4:08:49).

I suppose we have our answer as to why there are continuity errors between how shadowbringers and endwalker describe the sundering. Perhaps sticking to shadowbringers' version of the sundering might have been too inconvenient for the devs, so they glossed it over with a different version.

[Absimiliard]

I'm not 100% on this, but I believe I recall reading something about the devs changing the Endwalker story shortly before release because they felt, in light of then-recent events, it would've been too dark.

[AwesomeJr44]

I'm not 100% on this, but I believe I recall reading something about the devs changing the Endwalker story shortly before release because they felt, in light of then-recent events, it would've been too dark.

I have no idea where the evidence for that quote would be, but I definitely remember them saying that.

[Rolder50]

I dont think it'd be smart to dramatically change the story at the last minute in development. Of course, that could explain some of the plotholes.