What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

[RyuDragnier]

Personally I was hoping a few of the Scions were going to be written off in EW in some way, as it'd feel more like a finale. I'm not talking killed off, but something like Y'shtola taking a heavy blow that forces her into retirement due to being unable to sense the Abominations.

[Atelier-Bagur]

Hardly anyone here has been asking for Hydaelyn to be a straight up villain. It was suggested that in the context of her story it would make sense for her to be well meaning antagonist who happened to benefit the Sundered but still needed to be stopped and called out for the horrific atrocities she committed on the Unsundered. No amount of handwaving makes genocide suddenly acceptable - let alone to those who happen to be the victims of it.

My own stance is that it makes perfect sense for the Sundered not to want to roll over and die for the sake of the Unsundered but the reverse is true as well. The game can disagree with that all it wants, can gaslight into pretending Venat is some quirky 'herois' and straight up retcon lore in a vain effort to make her look better...but I strongly disagree that it was 'always obvious' that she was going to be a perfect loving goddess. She was literally a talking crystal who never spoke in clear terms and shifted the blame from herself to those she deliberately tormented.

At this point the best way to salvage Venat would be to create some sort of alternate universe and quietly shuffle the Ancients over there so they can have their happy ending. If, at any point, the writers try to double down on the 'Ancients deserved to be genocided' rhetoric then I'm sure you can imagine the frustration and backlash that will arise.

Generally speaking if we wouldn't consider something acceptable for the protagonists to be subjected to then there's no reason anybody else in the setting needs to be fine with it happening to them.

I fail to see where in the context lies that us as the audience were supposed to be see Venat as this "antagonist" when all this time we've been helped by her blessing numerous times in our endeavors. The most we get in terms of questioning were her status as a "primal" and in the context at the time we assumed that all primals were bad news considering their nature of sapping away aether from the land and tempering people into mindless zombies who do nothing but worship them. Yet none of those qualities applied to Hydaelyn herself as:

1. She being the mother crystal, didnt cause any danger to the world by siphoning aether.
2. Tempering? I suppose her giving us the Echo and the Blessing of Light is a boon, but not once did our character nor any other of the WoLs went around worshipping her mindlessly or act out of their own volition; traits that reflect one from being actually tempered.

The setup that was established with Venat/Hyadaelyn during the end of Shb was mostly just "what exactly are you, and what is the grand plan here"

[MagiusNecros]

I think the Ancients just suck. The big ones just became genocidal maniacs in the long term. Evil is often paved with good intentions. It's somewhat similar to the downfall of Zeal from Chrono Trigger. Perfect society that falls to ruin.

I find most if not all the Ancients unrelatable and just horrible creatures in general.

[Lauront]

I think the Ancients just suck. The big ones just became genocidal maniacs in the long term. Evil is often paved with good intentions. It's somewhat similar to the downfall of Zeal from Chrono Trigger. Perfect society that falls to ruin.

I find most if not all the Ancients unrelatable and just horrible creatures in general.

Meanwhile, how many imperfect societies fell in the story? How many "perfect" (yes, quotation marks because the game loves that strawman term) ones (like the dragons') fell for no reason? Though you're entitled to your opinion, I can't say it makes the slightest bit of sense to me.

[PawPaw]

I think the Ancients just suck. The big ones just became genocidal maniacs in the long term. Evil is often paved with good intentions. It's somewhat similar to the downfall of Zeal from Chrono Trigger. Perfect society that falls to ruin.

I find most if not all the Ancients unrelatable and just horrible creatures in general.

Hmm, the big ones that Venat purposely saved from the Sundering so that they could go forward and commit the genocide that she was well aware of and even made them some handy-dandy extra planets to use as fodder for it? Such horrible people.

And the society that falls to ruin because Venat doesn't bother lifting a finger to try and save them from the external threat she knew was heading their way? Yes, again, well deserved.

[Rulakir]

I think people are upset the more information that's released about Venat the worse she looks. Particularly in this case, the short story proved their opposition was correct. Now we have to suffer lame attempts to antagonize. "Oh yeah? Well the Ancients still suck, so nyah!"

Also, I didn't think I'd make the 700 club before my posting privileges were lost, but I might at this rate!

[RyuDragnier]

I think people are upset the more information that's released about Venat the worse she looks. Particularly in this case, the short story proved their opposition was correct. Now we have to suffer lame attempts to antagonize. "Oh yeah? Well the Ancients still suck, so nyah!"

Also, I didn't think I'd make the 700 club before my posting privileges were lost, but I might at this rate!

People in this very thread like to simp...a LOT, for the Ancients, to the point where Venat is often treated like the anti-christ or Lucifer. It gets rather annoying, to be perfectly honest, especially considering this topic hasn't been dropped in over 8 months (seriously people, WTF is the matter with you!?)...and makes some people in this thread easy to troll, even if it ends up being that accidentally.

[Theodric]

I ate some beef earlier. It was tasty.

But, yeah - the concern over it being such a red line to kill a bunch of animals seems strange to me. If in order to restore my loved ones I had to sacrifice a bunch of chickens then I'd feel bad for the chickens but my loved ones are ultimately the priority.

We don't blame the Sundered for cutting down people who try to harm their loved ones. There's no whining about the Ala Mhigans killing wildlife that had settled in the Temple of the First after it it fell into ruin.

The game isn't consistent with its themes or established lines in the sand, so there's no reason for us as players to take them seriously.

As for Hydaelyn, I distinctly remember many people speaking up over the years to express that they didn't trust her and found her to be creepy and manipulative. As it happened, even back then whenever anyone did so the 'milady, thy honour must be restored' types emerged in droves to defend everything even when she was just a crystal because she had a 'soft, pretty voice'.

Generally speaking, people who like the antagonists appreciate nuance. That's what interests them - so I don't know why there's this constant, strange insinuation that we wouldn't like Venat if she was written to be nuanced and the game stopped trying to hide her genocidal antics behind fluffy words and instead had her held as accountable for her actions as the Ascians and Garleans were.

[Rulakir]

It gets rather annoying, to be perfectly honest, especially considering this topic hasn't been dropped in over 8 months (seriously people, WTF is the matter with you!?).

This coming from someone who knowingly has frequented this thread for just as long despite not liking the discussion that happens here?

[RyuDragnier]

This coming from someone who knowingly has frequented this thread for just as long despite not liking the discussion that happens here?

I stop by every few months, if you recall, just to see how the hell this thread is still existing.