What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

[aveyond-dreams]

This is completely unrelated.
TV Series The Sopranos's ending was originally received quite poorly because of how unconventionnal it was, but over the years more and more people started to recognize it for the genius it was through analysis and discussions.
In contrast, Game of Thrones's reception only got worse over the years, with people still being angry over it more than 3 years after its run was over.
Talking and analyzing a work only makes it worse if its quality was surface level. Which is IMO, exactly the case for Endwalker.

Agreed. Other than game of thrones I’ve never seen a piece of media have this sort of reception to it that only seems to become more negative with time. I’ve yet to see anyone who was negative about Endwalker after finishing it end up liking it as time goes on.

[Reap00]

In the end nothing in this thread really matters. A series of opinions and nothing more. The game will not change. The vast majority of players will love the story regardless. You guys keep this thread alive though if it makes you feel special.

[Lauront]

Whatever helps you get through the night.

[Rulakir]

The Omega quest chain would disagree, which is why I think we get comments like this because people feel threatened. Feedback was enough for them to walk back half of the reasoning for the sundering as well as make it so that the WoL can disapprove of what Venat did.

[Theodric]

The Omega quest chain would disagree, which is why I think we get comments like this because people feel threatened. Feedback was enough for them to walk back half of the reasoning for the sundering as well as make it so that the WoL can disapprove of what Venat did.

Yep. Not to mention the existence of an emergency 'clarification' Live Letter to further elaborate on elements of the story. I don't remember anything like that happening in the immediate aftermath of previous expansions.

If the development team take our feedback on board? Great. If not, oh well - I'll just care less about the game and drift away. I'm already devoting most of my gaming time at the moment to TESO.

[Theodric]

I think a healthy balance can be struck between 'long winded' and 'too much, too fast'. Endwalker tried to cover way too much territory within a very short period of time and didn't really give any of the regions visited their fair share time in the spotlight as a result. Some of us have been waiting years to see specific elements come into the direct spotlight only to have them fall away just as quickly as they finally pulled into the station.

The deliberate efforts to 'subvert expectations' is also arguably rubbing a decent amount of people the wrong way. We ended up fighting both Hydaelyn and Zodiark anyway so if they truly wanted to 'subvert expectations' then maybe having both team up to combat a third party threat would have caused more people to be on board with the premise of the expansion. Pretty hard to consider the story to be 'inspiring' when it's unironically trying to excuse and promote genocide as a good and necessary thing, after all.

As an aside, I'd consider that to be far 'edgier' than artwork calling out how messed up genocide actually is...

[Theodric]

What gets me is that I honestly cannot fathom the decision making when it comes to the likes of Elidibus. It's like Yoshi-P is terrified of people rooting or liking anyone other than the Scions and City State leaders or some fluffy very minor character of little consequence. So right as a character who has been built up over time steps into the spotlight they're immediately killed off and then largely forgotten about by the ongoing narrative. Unless it's to make disparaging remarks at their expense.

Like that utterly laughable snipe from Y'shtola regarding Elidibus in 6.1 for doing the very same thing that...Hydaelyn was doing, to one of Y'shtola's closest friends no less! Oh, but of course - it's absolutely fine for someone very close to you to be manipulated and killed unnecessarily so long as 'mOmMy' is the one doing it. These same characters will lose their minds if even the most sympathetic of antagonists so much as looks at one of their friends the wrong way, though!

[EgilTheStressedMage]

What gets me is that I honestly cannot fathom the decision making when it comes to the likes of Elidibus. It's like Yoshi-P is terrified of people rooting or liking anyone other than the Scions and City State leaders or some fluffy very minor character of little consequence. So right as a character who has been built up over time steps into the spotlight they're immediately killed off and then largely forgotten about by the ongoing narrative. Unless it's to make disparaging remarks at their expense.

Like that utterly laughable snipe from Y'shtola regarding Elidibus in 6.1 for doing the very same thing that...Hydaelyn was doing, to one of Y'shtola's closest friends no less! Oh, but of course - it's absolutely fine for someone very close to you to be manipulated and killed unnecessarily so long as 'mOmMy' is the one doing it. These same characters will lose their minds if even the most sympathetic of antagonists so much as looks at one of their friends the wrong way, though!

He simply does not and probably cannot understand what made Emet-Selch work and clearly refuses to try. At this point XIV is in it's Sticker Star phase (fourth expansion and fourth Paper Mario maybe) where the director thinks they know what players want by destroying absolutely everything that made the previous expansions work in favor of what the director personally wants, quality be damned. Spoiler alert: the game was a goddamn failure and is almost universally agreed upon. In between using a weak consumable based system for the entirety of the game and Kersti's existence, I couldn't even finish a second playthrough. Origami King and Color Splash were steps in the right direction but it's going to be take a long time for there to be a true quality Paper Mario again. Wouldn't surprise me if XIV is heading the same way.

Or maybe he just doesn't care anymore since he has his money.

[Theodric]

He simply does not and probably cannot understand what made Emet-Selch work and clearly refuses to try. At this point XIV is in it's Sticker Star phase (fourth expansion and fourth Paper Mario maybe) where the director thinks they know what players want by destroying absolutely everything that made the previous expansions work in favor of what the director personally wants, quality be damned. Spoiler alert: the game was a goddamn failure and is almost universally agreed upon. In between using a weak consumable based system for the entirety of the game and Kersti's existence, I couldn't even finish a second playthrough. Origami King and Color Splash were steps in the right direction but it's going to be take a long time for there to be a true quality Paper Mario again. Wouldn't surprise me if XIV is heading the same way.

Or maybe he just doesn't care anymore since he has his money.

I think he's too obsessed with the older Final Fantasy titles. It's not exactly a secret that although they weren't free of nuance, they're mostly straight up black and white stories of good versus evil. Things get more complex in the more 'recent' main entries since the antagonists are generally more fleshed out, charismatic and sympathetic.

I also think there's a strange unwillingness to compromise. Those of us who enjoyed the Return to Ivalice and Save the Queen content are forced to lose out because the storyline was artificially ended despite being planned to last longer. Then some here have the audacity to wonder why we're so annoyed when resources are diverted into yet more fluffy pursuits that lack meaningful stakes and consequences.

FFXIV's storytelling is becoming very effete for lack of a better word. I suppose it's telling that one of the few elements that still intrigues me is the Void and that looks to be the next thing to be hastily wrapped up and resolved.

I've been having fun in TESO at least. I'll be giving 6.2 chance - mostly for the sake of my house - but if it ends up disappointing me then I'll cut my losses. I'll only be sticking around if the development team prove that they're willing to throw a bone at those of us who like more than just their clear favourites.

[aveyond-dreams]

I have to wonder what media it is they're consuming that led them to write things the way they turned out recently. Covid pushing people in a lighter direction cannot account entirely for the sort of storytelling we've been seeing. Rather than being influenced by greater works more geared towards an adult audience like Devilman, Game of Thrones, or even recent games like FFXV and Lightning Returns, it appears the "safe" route was chosen far too frequently.

Where are they drawing inspiration from when it comes to the Void? Why is it being pushed onto us so hard early on rather than letting it come into its own relevance later on over the course of the Season 2 plot? I do not want to be over and done with it so soon, nor do I want to be teased by it and get interested in it only for 7.0 to "subvert my expectations" by taking us somewhere completely different. Why couldn't we have actually gone back to being adventurers with a new party? Why are we still keeping characters around whose arcs have long since been over?

Friday brings with it the 6.2 trailer with the Live Letter, and hopefully some kind of clue as to what we should expect. Given the photos up on the patch site I can make a reasonable prediction as to what we might see in the MSQ, though none of it is particularly exciting nor do I expect that a meaningful dialogue will occur between us and Zenos's voidsent.

As I mentioned earlier in another thread, I think that they need to take the time to consider how things feel from the player's perspective rather than a developmental one where in this case, they know what lies ahead and while they may feel assured in the current direction, there are a lot of players who don't. We want to be able to trust in them and gain some confidence back, but what we've been seeing is getting in the way of that. We'd rather not lose out on FFXIV but if things don't get better despite our attempts to call attention to the issues with this game, many people stand to leave for other games though ideally, they want to be able to play the best version of FFXIV that they don't feel they're getting.

Re-asses, reconsider, and restore our trust.