What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

[CrownySuccubus]

This "benevolent monarch waiting to take their country back" plot has already happened with Hien and Doma. Gaius for some reason was made defender of Werlyt. The Hannish people kept their dragon lord when their ruler died and it was revealed he was operating behind the scenes. Would you still be complaining about it if they had an Ashe or Larsa figure to appear and gallantly rise the power of a single-ruler government and rule benevolently every single time a government is toppled or in crisis and that we need a republic in there to shake it up or do you just have a thing about monarchies?

I feel like this is less about repeated story elements and more about how you have a tendency to pop into threads to let people know how much you don't like republics in fiction. I don't know anyone else who has had a problem with this and of those stories, only the government switchover in Ishgard had any actual role in the plot. Ala Mhigo and Eulmore sort of just happened because there wasn't a need in the plot to concentrate on regime change more than a quest or two since as you say it's trodden ground, and Garlemald is a pile of cinders that people can barely live in, let alone a nation. We haven't even crossed that bridge yet.

It's hilariously ironic that the FAE of all races actually have one of the better systems of deposing and replacing a monarch. And even in that case, said monarch was such a threat that all they could initially do was ignore them until someone came along to actually perform the impeachment proceedings.

[aveyond-dreams]

I don't see the problem in "this has happened 4 or whatever times already", because it's not like it happens to EVERY single monarchy. Aside from the monarchal beast tribes, we also have Doma, Fanow, and Radz-at-Han. All three of which are some type of monarchy and/or dictatorship, which more or less have stayed the same. So every expansion since 4.0 has basically introduced us to at least one more form of a benevolent monarchy.

If you don't have an issue with the same story resolution being repeated 4 times in a row then it is extremely unlikely we will ever come to an agreement as to what or what doesn't constitute good storytelling. I don't have the patience for that sort of writing, I consider it quite lazy and I feel that it is cheapening the game's world each time it is used.

Following on from this, Doma is no longer relevant to the plot, Fanow is never going to be revisited again anytime soon, and Radz-at-Han is not a setting that has done much to charm me besides having a dragon. Not a monarchy, an immortal dragon. There's not much in the way of political intrigue there, nor are there any major plot points going on in Thavnair related to its governments or its relationships with neighbouring states. It doesn’t compare with the likes of Ishgard or Garlemald’s plotlines, and absolutely doesn’t come close to scratching the itch that Bozja and Ivalice content does for me.

The governments that fell are the ones that were actively at war with the Scions or their allies, such as Ishgard, Eulmore and Garlemald. And aside from the outright surrender of said dictators, I'm at a loss how you would have preferred things turn out.

Ok here goes.

Ishgard = Aymeric is chosen by the noble houses as the next king after proving his leadership. This falls in line with how Cecil Harvey, despite literally being half-alien and half-commoner ascended the throne of Baron. Or if they insist on having a UK style parliament then at least let the man go so he can join the party.

Ala Mhigo = With how poorly the WoL was treated there I wouldn’t care at all if Shinryu razed the place to the ground entirely. Otherwise let Raubhan take control as a competent military dictator and focus on establishing order and proper governance again.

Eulmore = This is the sole instance where having a mayor elected via democratic vote would have made sense, contingent on the story not having already exhausted my patience with using the yay democracy plot twice already by this point.

Bozja = A young female Hrothgar queen is chosen to lead her people into an era of peace and prosperity, guided by the stars as they were in days of yore. She is advised by a small council made up of resistance members. Long blond hair like Cersei Lannister and red priestess garments to contrast against the blue-white tones of the other queen.

Garlemald = A young princess survives the catastrophe that befell her nation and by sharing her peoples’ plight, grows closer to them and understands their troubles. As the sole heir and more benevolent option compared to the former members of the senate who enabled half a century of conquest and misrule in the provinces, she is crowned Empress. Long black dress with gold trimmings and snow-white hair, pure soviet princess vibes. The new community waifu. Thancred stays behind in Garlemald to act as her bodyguard and protector like Basch did for Larsa. No one goes to the moon.

In basically every case, the source of the problem was the local dictator who refused to settle for anything less than death, and in all three cases, NONE of them had some sort of heir to take their place.

Solution = write heirs into the plot. Moving on.

And, for that matter, it's pretty believable that a nation that barely survived an oppressive dictatorship wouldn't be in the mood to install another one immediately. That's kind of the risk/problem inherent in absolute monarchies in the first place.

See = Baron from FFIV, Alexandria from FFIX, Fynn from FFII, Dalmasca from FFXII, Archades from FFXII, and so on. Granted, Archades is not an absolute monarchy but it can be assumed that with Larsa and Basch in power that their senate who orchestrated disaster after disaster was finally reigned in at some point.

even more words

Ok so 1 vs 4 times. 4 times we've been strung along only to end up at the same conclusion of "yay woohoo democracy!" while being preached about its virtues via Alphinaud. I'm sick of the receptiveness of it all. I'm not dedicating an entire post to respond to you because I'm wary of the post limit, we fundamentally disagree on what works best for the setting of the game and the story trying to be told here.

I hope you enjoy whatever the current writing direction ends up doing with the Void or any remaining territories on the Source, the further down FFXIV spirals the more time I will be spending in upcoming releases instead where I can enjoy a decent story without having to pay a subscription fee on top of the base price of the game.

[KizuyaKatogami]

I feel like this is less about repeated story elements and more about how you have a tendency to pop into threads to let people know how much you don't like republics in fiction. .

The same way you pop into threads to let people know how much you despise Garlemald and love sweet mommy Venat? Give me a break.

[Lunaxia]

A young female Hrothgar queen is chosen to lead her people into an era of peace and prosperity. Long blond hair like Cersei Lannister and red priestess garments to contrast against the blue-white tones of the other queen.

Garlemald = A young princess survives the catastrophe that befell her nation and by sharing her peoples’ plight, grows closer to them and understands their troubles. Long black dress with gold trimmings and snow-white hair, pure soviet princess vibes.

So I'm getting the impression this is kind of a thing for you...

[MikkoAkure]

The same way you pop into threads to let people know how much you despise Garlemald and love sweet mommy Venat? Give me a break.

Bits of the Garlemald story are interesting when they're not being written as the stereotypical monolithic evil fantasy empire. While I think they were done dirty by the writing as soon as Zenos took over and they decided to wreck everything, I'm not about to go full Garlean Legal Defense Team and I think story-wise they were in the wrong and shouldn't have done the things they did. They would've been better off not listening to foxy grandpa and the Lemures and a large portion of the senate and their supporters agreed. The whole Reaper storyline chronologically started when one of the Lemures tried assassinating his own emperor over disagreeing with the direction it was going.

The writers didn't stick the landing with Venat but I still maintain that there's no way that Hydaelyn was ever going to be the villain like some people in the forums had hoped. And when viewed in-universe through our character's eyes, for better or worse she's the reason us and everything we know exists. If a shadow ghost came up to me and said that 15,000 years ago people used to have amazing powers and were 20ft tall but there was a disagreement over the end of the world where they created two gods and one side wanted to cull the new life seeded onto the desolate aftermath (that led to us) to bring back their friends versus the one who said "no you can't do that" and stomped the other god so hard that the world broke, I'd pick the side that led to me and supports me continuing to live since that's all I know. Especially when that shadow ghost wants to kill everyone to bring back his god.

The Ascians and the Garleans are the same in that both try to kill you before explaining themselves. Both are also written to be the antagonists of the video game. The writers can give them more background to make you sympathize with them a bit more and make the game more interesting than what is was in ARR, but it doesn't change that they spent the whole entire game trying to kill us and as a video game the whole point is to "win" and one side has to lose. You can write your own book where the narrative ends up different, but the story here is reliant on the medium it's being told in.

[CrownySuccubus]

If you don't have an issue with the same story resolution being repeated 4 times in a row then it is extremely unlikely we will ever come to an agreement as to what or what doesn't constitute good storytelling. I don't have the patience for that sort of writing, I consider it quite lazy and I feel that it is cheapening the game's world each time it is used.

Repetitive storytelling is kind of par for the course in an MMO plot. There's always going to be yet more dark gods to slay. More evil overlords to depose. More oppressed people to save. Complaining about monarchies specifically is a hill I have no interest in dying on, and since half of your arguments amount to "I just don't like it", agreement was never really feasible. Understanding, at best.

Following on from this, Doma is no longer relevant to the plot, Fanow is never going to be revisited again anytime soon, and Radz-at-Han is not a setting that has done much to charm me besides having a dragon.

Doesn't change the fact that they're monarchies.

Not a monarchy, an immortal dragon.

He's a satrap, which is a monarchal position. Before him, a family of monarchs ruled as the puppet government. The fact that he doesn't age changes nothing about that, since he could always be killed or step down and personally name or father a successor.

It doesn’t compare with the likes of Ishgard or Garlemald’s plotlines, and absolutely doesn’t come close to scratching the itch that Bozja and Ivalice content does for me.

So we've moved from "the game is against monarchies" to "none of the ones that exist do it for me anymore".

Ishgard = Aymeric is chosen by the noble houses as the next king after proving his leadership. This falls in line with how Cecil Harvey, despite literally being half-alien and half-commoner ascended the throne of Baron. Or if they insist on having a UK style parliament then at least let the man go so he can join the party.

Ala Mhigo = With how poorly the WoL was treated there I wouldn’t care at all if Shinryu razed the place to the ground entirely. Otherwise let Raubhan take control as a competent military dictator and focus on establishing order and proper governance again.

Eulmore = This is the sole instance where having a mayor elected via democratic vote would have made sense, contingent on the story not having already exhausted my patience with using the yay democracy plot twice already by this point.

Bozja = A young female Hrothgar queen is chosen to lead her people into an era of peace and prosperity, guided by the stars as they were in days of yore. She is advised by a small council made up of resistance members. Long blond hair like Cersei Lannister and red priestess garments to contrast against the blue-white tones of the other queen.

Garlemald = A young princess survives the catastrophe that befell her nation and by sharing her peoples’ plight, grows closer to them and understands their troubles. As the sole heir and more benevolent option compared to the former members of the senate who enabled half a century of conquest and misrule in the provinces, she is crowned Empress. Long black dress with gold trimmings and snow-white hair, pure soviet princess vibes. The new community waifu. Thancred stays behind in Garlemald to act as her bodyguard and protector like Basch did for Larsa. No one goes to the moon.

Ala Mhigo doesn't want another dictator since the last one was literally called the Mad King. They literally held a conference to decide.

Eulmore is basically just "I don't like it".

No comment on Ishgard. It's not that different from what we have, except Aymeric just isn't wearing a crown. No comment on Bozja, either. That wasn't even written by the same writers as the rest of the game, and he had to rush the ending...so meh.

Garlemald? ...Yeah, I'll get to Queen Waifu in a second.

Solution = write heirs into the plot. Moving on.

That seems like it misses the point and/or goes against the entire characterization of said monarchs.

Thordan's goal was to become Emperor Palpatine and live forever as a god-king with no need for an heir.

Ala Mhigo's entire royal family died decades ago.

Eulmore was run by a manchild whose entire philosophy was that the future didn't matter, so party it up now.

Bozja did have an heir, and she turned out to be insane.

Most Garleans literally scoff at the idea of women rulers, and have no interest in anyone ruling who isn't a generalissimo. The idea of some Disney Princess showing up and melting the hearts of the Garleans sounds like an even more boring and unlikely outcome than any of the others.

See = Baron from FFIV, Alexandria from FFIX, Fynn from FFII, Dalmasca from FFXII, Archades from FFXII, and so on. Granted, Archades is not an absolute monarchy but it can be assumed that with Larsa and Basch in power that their senate who orchestrated disaster after disaster was finally reigned in at some point.

So in other words, you want the Scions to rule? That's what it sounds like you're saying. Because in each of the games you mentioned, the endgame is a player power fantasy that ends with various members of their party either as ruler or consort to a ruler. All hail Archbishop Thancred, Queen Lyse, Mayor Alphinaud, and Emperor G'raha!

Besides that, all of these "solutions" really say to me is that the problem isn't repetition. It's "do the repetition that I like". By your own admission here, you had no problem with the same conclusion in three different FF games (and twice in one of them).

I'd pick the side that led to me and supports me continuing to live since that's all I know.

This part I don't agree with. If I could go back in time and stop the genocide of the Indigenous Americans, the Crusades, the Transatlantic Slave Trade, the Holocaust, and many others, I'd do it even if I ceased to exist.

Most of these things are the reason the current world is so effed up.

[MikkoAkure]

This part I don't agree with. If I could go back in time and stop the genocide of the Indigenous Americans, the Crusades, the Transatlantic Slave Trade, the Holocaust, and many others, I'd do it even if I ceased to exist.

Most of these things are the reason the current world is so effed up.

Where I see the difference is the means and the result. You can go back in time and stop any one of those things and the world would be a better place but it would also still be our world. The Ascians want to delete 15,000 years of history and in order to do so, they need to cause untold death and destruction time and time again and each time, a whole world is destroyed and along with it all of that whole world's history and every life upon it.

I couldn't sacrifice billions of people over tens of thousands of years just for the sake of what once was.

[anhaato]

I mean, the game is based on real life, so you can't really divorce the two.

Ooh ooh my turn my turn! I suppose I should assume, based on everyone else's stances on ingame regime changes, that you all support US-backed regime changes in the Middle East, yes?

[Thaciscokidd]

Where I see the difference is the means and the result. You can go back in time and stop any one of those things and the world would be a better place but it would also still be our world. The Ascians want to delete 15,000 years of history and in order to do so, they need to cause untold death and destruction time and time again and each time, a whole world is destroyed and along with it all of that whole world's history and every life upon it.

I couldn't sacrifice billions of people over tens of thousands of years just for the sake of what once was.

Super off topic but.

This is the danger of linear Closed Loop variety and the branching Open Loop time travel well time travel in general. You are right. For the story to go forward with the world as is the loop needed to be closed(strangely unlike the black rose death timeline that was averted in ShB).

But as cool as it would be to stop one of those real world events there is no telling the repercussions that would happen because that had changed. Heck if you changed the Transatlantic Slave Trade there's a good chance I wouldn't exist and more importantly what atrocities would(or wouldn't) occur because who exist or who doesn't exist. Fundamental butterfly effect theory.

If you want a good example in gaming Chrono Triggers 12 different endings depending on what you do or don't do.

[Kozh]

one side wanted to cull the new life seeded onto the desolate aftermath (that led to us) to bring back their friends

Except the "new life seeded" are not the precursor of sundered race. There's no other human races other than the Ancients, and sundered people come from them, not the "New life".