What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

[KizuyaKatogami]

No, there are huge differences, and I'm sort of baffled that I even need to point them out.

Magnai's pursuit involves basically asking any available woman who piques his interest if they'll be his Nhaama - he's looking for someone to serve a pre-established role for them. Based on what we've seen, meanwhile, G'raha has been interested in the WoL, and only the WoL, emotionally, this entire time. He's not simply "looking for a suitable partner" in general. Of course one is going to appeal to more people on a deeper level than another. G'raha's backstory, and thus context, is also incredibly different. He has been working to save the Warrior of Light, willing to give up his life, for over a hundred years, with no expectation of reward. That also is going to make most people view his actions in a different light than someone like Magnai. Magnai's personality is rude, gruff, arrogant, and incredibly entitled. G'raha, despite what is said sometimes, is not actually pushy with the WoL, even though, yes, his feelings are obvious - most of the time, he's trying to hold them back so as not to be pushy. That was, like, the Crystal Exarch's whole deal - how the whole time he was holding back as hard as he could so as not to burden the WoL. The two scenes I remember him being remotely "pushy," as either G'raha or the Exarch, are both scenes where he presumed he was about to, or was at great risk of, being about to die, so I think it's reasonable to give him an allowance there. Even then, it's framed as "I want to go on an adventure with you."

Magnai and G'raha expressing their affections is not something that happens in a vacuum and be isolated as "they're making constant advances, they're the same." That's not how characters work. Saying "they're not that different though" doesn't magically make it so.

You’re entitled to your opinion but i strongly disagree. Magnai takes no for an answer. He doesn’t continue to pursue someone who tells him no. Also, we have to keep in mind it’s their customs, it’s their beliefs who are we to critique that? Whereas with Graha, we have no option to say no. We just have to constantly nod and say yes whenever he’s fawning over us, begging us to go on an adventure etc. Graha’s attitude to me is stalkerish,soyboy,arrogant,and at many times ignorant. All about perspective i suppose.

[CrownySuccubus]

Also, we have to keep in mind it’s their customs, it’s their beliefs who are we to critique that?

The fact that Magnai is considered a creep even within his own culture makes this argument a non sequitir.

soyboy

LMFAO

What?!

[Brinne]

LMFAO

What?!

Not going to lie - I get the impression this is fundamentally a lot of peoples' problem with G'raha, and most everything else is looking for more reasonable-sounding justification after the fact. I mean, you don't need it, folks. You are totally entitled to dislike G'raha based on his personality, appearance, and mannerisms. It's just not reflective of hypocrisy or flawed writing or much else beyond "it doesn't appeal to my tastes." Which you are free to say!

[CrownySuccubus]

Not going to lie - I get the impression this is fundamentally a lot of peoples' problem with G'raha, and most everything else is looking for more reasonable-sounding justification after the fact. I mean, you don't need it, folks. You are totally entitled to dislike G'raha based on his personality, appearance, and mannerisms. It's just not reflective of hypocrisy or flawed writing or much else beyond "it doesn't appeal to my tastes." Which you are free to say!

Aveyond-Dreams, at the very least, directly cited that as his problem with Gr'aha, and that he wouldn't object as hard to someone with a "traditionally masculine look" (and no hairpins) pining over his character.

[KizuyaKatogami]

Not going to lie - I get the impression this is fundamentally a lot of peoples' problem with G'raha, and most everything else is looking for more reasonable-sounding justification after the fact. I mean, you don't need it, folks. You are totally entitled to dislike G'raha based on his personality, appearance, and mannerisms. It's just not reflective of hypocrisy or flawed writing or much else beyond "it doesn't appeal to my tastes." Which you are free to say!

I’ve already given examples of flawed writing of plot holes and plot armor surrounding him though. It’s very reflective of hypocritical writing which isn’t unknown for the scions.

[Midareyukki]

Not going to lie - I get the impression this is fundamentally a lot of peoples' problem with G'raha, and most everything else is looking for more reasonable-sounding justification after the fact. I mean, you don't need it, folks. You are totally entitled to dislike G'raha based on his personality, appearance, and mannerisms. It's just not reflective of hypocrisy or flawed writing or much else beyond "it doesn't appeal to my tastes." Which you are free to say!

On one hand, everyone's a critic.

On the other hand, when your character breaks established lore, pushes boundaries even in fiction with nary any consequence and is consistently portrayed as a loveable bean who can do no wrong other than "tries too hard", that's not really a well-written character. That's a Mary Sue.

Because let's not kid ourselves, most of the Scions are flat, and it's not like FF14 has a story meant for anything majorly deep. But at least:
- Thancred had his Minfilia obssession
- Urianger had his underhanded shady methods that made people question his credibility and loyalty
- Alphinaud had all of Post-ARR
- Alisaie had her passivity and later extreme impulsivity
- ARR and HSW pre-character development Estinien

Now, what flaws do G'raha and Y'shtola have?
- G'raha works himself to exhaustion and bleeds just to please his heroes, but it all worked out fine anyway
- Y'shtola's penchant for using spells that should have killed her but haven't

At least recognize the game's flaws when they're this glaring. Tastes are one thing. I prefer Red Alphi to Blue Alphi, for example. And I do think G'raha is cool, love it when he takes leadership. We all have biases. But that's not really denying poor writing or at least poor character structure.

Unless, of course, you're one of those people who think bad writing is still subjective and Mary Sue-esque characters are perfectly fine. In which case, there's no argument to be made there, you'll settle for anything.

[Brinne]

Unless, of course, you're one of those people who think bad writing is still subjective and Mary Sue-esque characters are perfectly fine. In which case, there's no argument to be made there, you'll settle for anything.

???????????????????????????????

[Theodric]

I'd find it tiresome no matter which character happened to do be doing it, though I'd be in agreement that it'd be more tolerable if he looked and acted in a more masculine manner given that I'm attracted to masculine men, not feminine or androgynous men.

That aside, I think the people honing in on the criticism of his appearance are ignoring the many other complaints being put forward regarding his character such as the ridiculous plot armour and the bizarre decision to suddenly take a minor side character from the Crystal Tower raids, made that segment of the game's story more prominent and then strangely tie him directly to all of the game's major story arcs. (Including helping to bring down two of the three Unsundered).

It's a problem shared with WoW, where despite it making sense to have some other character with direct ties to a specific plot point show up...we'd be stuck with the same handful of characters at the forefront again and again.

[Midareyukki]

???????????????????????????????

If you're that simple, then let me spell it out for you:

It means it doesn't matter how low things get, you'll always accept it because "Someone will enjoy it"\"It's subjective".

And that's just not an argument. You can't even have an argument when the answer is a fallacy like that.

Beauty isn't always in the eye of the beholder.

[Brinne]

If you're that simple, then let me spell it out for you:

It means it doesn't matter how low things get, you'll always accept it because "Someone will enjoy it"\"It's subjective".

And that's just not an argument. You can't even have an argument when the answer is a fallacy like that.

Beauty isn't always in the eye of the beholder.

Since just repeating a line of question marks would probably be sort of gauche, this time I guess I will go with:

ahahahaha what