What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

[Lucida3b]

I know I have come in here and said my peace before but if I am allowed I just felt the idea to shove two expansion ideas into one for the sake of wrapping up the story was a terrible idea and nothing got really fleshed out due to it. I would have liked to see these resolutions in side quests happening in the main story. Garlemald shouldn't have been resolved in the final role quest, the realization "maybe all parties were wrong/justified" shouldn't have been in Omega: Beyond the Rift. I am glad they are in the game at all don't get me wrong but I know a good portion of the player base will never see these.

I also think the "cutsey" character moments really need to stop. I am glad they did call out the Y'shtola magical girl scene as a step too far for her character but at the same token G'raha is still acting like a fan boy over everything which is super jarring after how well he handled Thavnair during the Final Days. To me at this point some of the characters seem downright regressive in character growth which leave me just sighing and going "Hey friend can we just speed read this and get to the other content?". I also am a bit miffed we are still with the Scions and not building up a new cast to go adventure with but that is just my personal take of course. I would have much rather made Shadows of Mhach mandatory and gotten Cait Sith. (It would also maybe help the Alliance Raid roulette in forcing more then just CT to be unlocked.)

Honestly im in this weird place, where i didnt find it that bad as i just saw it 'embarrassing childhood moment'' than anything too harsh on her current character. The graha stuff is more obvious to me, I do like him but after this thread has pointed out some of the fanboy stuff i now wish they would tone that part down

[Thaciscokidd]

What amazes me is the gaslighting surrounding Venat ended in 6.0. Not only did the NieR crossover make her look like a villain, but the Omega quest chain also walked back a lot of the positive narrative surrounding her. Both of which were exclusively written by Ishikawa. Yet, you've still got ardent defenders of Venat who insist she made the best and only choice.

Ok so this wasn't just me. I got this very feeling around the final part of that quest. It felt like someone (or Ishikawa herself) narratively took a step back and looked at the story in a relative objective way. To parrot Xeronia, it kinda caught me off guard that such a topic was addressed in content that some players might simply miss. But alas it does seem as much as people try to shout it down, that someone in the narrative department is weighing the criticism to the story in some sort of way.

The whole Zepla situation does shine a light on the community as a whole. In no way trying to disrespect anyone here, its easier to shrug off people here who don't like what is posted and treat them as just basic dissenters, but when someone that has the ear of the FF XiV team in some manner says it all it does is just discredit the opinions here as a whole.

[Rulakir]

Coming from WoW, having a current and relatively important quest chain locked behind 'old' raid content is a foreign concept to me. I saw someone on another forum express frustration at the fact they couldn't figure out what needed to be done to unlock it, there's no indicators how and he never would've pieced together it was something from 2 expansions ago. Sadly, I think a lot of people will end up missing it as a result.

I'm going to continue to hold the theory that the Venat we got in 6.0 wasn't Ishikawa's original intention. It was pointed out to me that Ishkawa never talks about her in interviews, even ones in which she should be relevant like the release of Flow. Plus, I don't think Ishikawa likes killing off characters and Venat is, as someone put it, "turbo dead". Add in NieR and Omega and, yeah, I think Venat being a "good guy" was someone else's call and Ishikawa had to make the best of it. Now she's having to do damage control.

It seems clear Hermes and Meteion were her babies, which she gushed about back in ShB. Maybe one day we'll find out what went wrong in EW. Well, aside from Yoshi-P rushing a story conclusion.

[jameseoakes]

Coming from WoW, having a current and relatively important quest chain locked behind 'old' raid content is a foreign concept to me. I saw someone on another forum express frustration at the fact they couldn't figure out what needed to be done to unlock it, there's no indicators how and he never would've pieced together it was something from 2 expansions ago. Sadly, I think a lot of people will end up missing it as a result.

I'm going to continue to hold the theory that the Venat we got in 6.0 wasn't Ishikawa's original intention. It was pointed out to me that Ishkawa never talks about her in interviews, even ones in which she should be relevant like the release of Flow. Plus, I don't think Ishikawa likes killing off characters and Venat is, as someone put it, "turbo dead". Add in NieR and Omega and, yeah, I think Venat being a "good guy" was someone else's call and Ishikawa had to make the best of it. Now she's having to do damage control.

It seems clear Hermes and Meteion were her babies, which she gushed about back in ShB. Maybe one day we'll find out what went wrong in EW. Well, aside from Yoshi-P rushing a story conclusion.

I'd would be interesting to get a honest run down of what happened in the build up to Endwalker, it feels very much like something went wrong. The Venat stuff just feels like a mess, it doesn't feel consistent with the earlier lore of Hydaelyn nor did she feel like she was constant in the Endwalker story with her jumping from the love stuff to SUFFER. Hermes and Meition as feel very forced they really don't find the games themes and the the game feels desperate to give them a pass of the unimaginably evil acts they commit

[CrownySuccubus]

No, it's not "the exact same problem" when one group is the obvious minority. Do you realize this is the kind of reasoning people use to discredit safe spaces?

The reason the "safe space" analogy doesn't work here is because no one is being excluded from participating in a universal activity. For example, no one is kicking you off of FFXIV servers if you don't like the story the same way you can, say, be arrested for being trans in the wrong places.

What you're arguing is like an atheist walking into a church to argue whether God exists, being told to leave because they're disrupting the worshippers, claiming that this was unfair and wrong because it doesn't allow free speech, and then creating a new Church of Atheism that kicks out the first person argues that God exists.

Like I said, if that's what you want to do, then fine. It simply makes you NO BETTER than the people you're criticizing.

Yes. Because she is a person with a large platform and made a dismissive statement founded on nothing more than the thread title and its number of pages. Is there anything wrong with calling this out? Should we just take this lying down?

I mean, do what you want. But, I'm not exactly sure how you think arguing this with people who already agree with you "calls out" anything or isn't "taking it lying down".

But in any case, very well done. At the exact same moment wider attention was called to this thread, you have personally managed to derail it and make it entirely about how the minority is really, really mean to the majority. Not a great look for us, indeed. Mission accomplished, huh?

Pretty sure I've said that the majority is mean as well, and that I said MOST instances of discussion in this thread are chill.

I mean, if nothing else, you're proving my point that people are getting over-sensitive when someone dares disagree with the consensus even SLIGHTLY.

Feel free to type up a response to this, I will be ignoring it. No need to drag this out any longer, I wouldn't want you to derail the thread again with a back and forth like you did with Theodric when he rightly called out the obnoxious puritanical villain-fans-are-bad part of the fandom.

Thanks once again for proving my point that thread-posters tend to dislike back-and-forth arguments which ignore rest of the thread.

It's absolutely funny that you guys are agreeing with, and confirming, everything I said but want to act like I'm somehow the ignoble party here.

I see people talking about getting downvoted off of threads or getting kicked from discord groups. The closest thing to that here is if someone reports your post and it actually gets removed. I fail to see the issue with several people responding to you at once on this platform. Either way I think, we've belabored the point to death.

Teraq literally just explained in the quote above how merely ARGUING with opposition (especially when it's you alone versus a mob) is annoying, tiring and draining. Hell, both you and he have basically just decided to "ignore me" and disengage because you think I'm wrong and disrupting the the thread. Despite the fact, I might add, that your proposed "solution" was to pick one or two people to exclusively argue with on a thread or whatever.

So let me ask: do you guys like it when people you consider annoying continue to argue with you? Because it seems you think that's what I'm doing.

[KageTokage]

Needless to say Elidibus and Zodiark were also both done dirty to the extreme, where is the reverence for the one that sacrificed himself for the greater good and solely in service to his brethren? Instead we heap praise on somebody who only acted in haughty self importance and service of her own beliefs. Overall, Elidibus is an all round good egg and deserves far more credit in the narrative than he got.

I'm really hoping the Pandemonium raids give him a proper send-off somehow.

Perhaps he's still "alive" enough for a talk once all is said and done, since we do have convenient access to the aetherial sea right nearby.

[Xirean]

Teraq literally just explained in the quote above how merely ARGUING with opposition (especially when it's you alone versus a mob) is annoying, tiring and draining. Hell, both you and he have basically just decided to "ignore me" and disengage because you think I'm wrong and disrupting the the thread. Despite the fact, I might add, that your proposed "solution" was to pick one or two people to exclusively argue with on a thread or whatever.

So let me ask: do you guys like it when people you consider annoying continue to argue with you? Because it seems you think that's what I'm doing.

I'm not ignoring anyone. I said me bit and felt that was enough. I have nothing else to add to this current topic. I felt the meme posted was funny and still disagree with your point.

[Xirean]

I'm really hoping the Pandemonium raids give him a proper send-off somehow.

Perhaps he's still "alive" enough for a talk once all is said and done, since we do have convenient access to the aetherial sea right nearby.

Pandemonium kinda worries me. The direction they went with 6.0 was very frustrating and the raid series seems to be following in line with that, so really I'm not holding my breath on enjoying the story it presents. Hopefully there won't be another fight where the aoes are the same color as the floor at least.

[Rulakir]

Better still, the only being that isn't subjected to her newfound sadistic ideology is herself.

Glad you found us! Worth noting she gave her primal form wings while condemning everyone else to walk. :P

The possibility of saving them is basically dangled in front of us and then cruelly snatched away. I struggle to fathom who would consider the popularity of the ancients and still think this sort of bait is a good idea.

I ask myself this frequently.

The most ridiculous for me though is Emet—a powerful mage apparently without peer—getting nerfed into the ground to contrive him being capable of potentially losing to #1 soy boy Hermes of all people.

Yes. I loved having Emet & Hyths as trusts, but otherwise it felt stupid. I wanted to see Convocation Emet in all his sorcerer of eld glory (in a situation where we're not having to kill him).

It is beyond me how this woman can be painted as some maternal, caring figure when her actions are self-serving, callous, fanatical and deceitful.

Same. Hydaelyn would have 100% sundered the WoL and Scions if it would have furthered her agenda. She has no real love for anyone and even her scope of 'mankind' is limited as the shards appear to have always been intended to be collateral damage to her plan.

Though better yet, we are reunited with our two new-old friends Emet-Selch and Hythlodaeus and...don't say a single word to them the entire time they are on screen. Why is it that these two who were not only Azem's closest friends, but also selflessly sacrificed themselves to a mindwipe to let us escape are the people we have nothing to say to? We can tell Hermes we'll get 'em next time or give Venat a gg ty, but nothing for these two?

Ugh, I hadn't thought of that. Every time I think UT couldn't get worse. >_<

Overall, Elidibus is an all round good egg and deserves far more credit in the narrative than he got.

My copium is that his soul was ushered into the aetherial sea by the CT and only his primal essence was used as time travel fuel. I'll be so upset if he's "turbo dead". Why even have Pandemonium? It amazes me the writers/devs won't touch the Scions, but the Ancients? It's cool if we kill them repeatedly, right?

Phew, I actually feel a bit less bitter now.

I wish it lasted! Six months later and I'm still malding. :|

[Xeronia]

Honestly im in this weird place, where i didnt find it that bad as i just saw it 'embarrassing childhood moment'' than anything too harsh on her current character. The graha stuff is more obvious to me, I do like him but after this thread has pointed out some of the fanboy stuff i now wish they would tone that part down

Funny enough I would have been fine with it if we didn't have the "Y'shtola asleep in a stack of books" earlier alongside G'raha being as excited as a kitten with string to abandon Krille and come with us. I just felt it was a bit too much much and seeing G'raha show up for the 24 man certainly didn't help. I just think between the two of them it was a tad much. I feel G'raha has derailed so much as a character at this point as the fanbase adores him as the "hopeless fanboy" despite he clearly still has that 100+ years of Exarch in him. I just want a bit more Exarch in there and less fanboy.

I will also willingly admit my view of the story started to go be jaded after that interview came out where "Venat was good" and "Zenos ceasing to breathe was suppose to tell you he is dead... because he totally didn't silt his throat in Stormblood and survive." Also the Newfound Adventure being The Void feels terrible as I know I will not see Cylva or Unukhalhi involved due to what they are locked behind despite it really should be their story unless there is a follow up side quest after which as stated before not everyone will be able to do because of the high requirements. I also want to just take a second to vent how frustrated I am with how badly Zenos got screwed over. His ending was pretty much perfect for him I won't disagree but it resolved none of the ongoing questions around him. His super strength is apparently just Emet genetics, the dreams were a throw away line to make Fandaniel explain his Amon connection, and absolutely nothing on Elidibus' line form SB about Zenos being a test subject. I would be fine with his ending if these got more resolved in game but the chances of that happening postmortem are pretty low. He did make it out better than Varis or Nerva though at least, the Galvus bloodline is cursed I tell ya.