What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

[Xirean]

I've never been to this part of the forum before...but what?

Other than here, I've never seen any complaints about EW's story than some people thought the pacing could be better and the second trip to Laby felt a little filler to people and that EVERYONE knew the death fake-outs in Ultima were fake outs.

While those complaints are hardly nothing, they're also not supremely or critically damaging to the narrative, largely being mild annoyances marring an otherwise fantastic experience.

Is this forum out of touch with the entire rest of the community, or is this some big thing that I've somehow never heard of anywhere else?

How much of this thread have you read? Quite a bit of the grievances people have, have been thoroughly explained in earlier pages.

[aveyond-dreams]

I've never been to this part of the forum before...but what?

Other than here, I've never seen any complaints about EW's story than some people thought the pacing could be better and the second trip to Laby felt a little filler to people and that EVERYONE knew the death fake-outs in Ultima were fake outs.

While those complaints are hardly nothing, they're also not supremely or critically damaging to the narrative, largely being mild annoyances marring an otherwise fantastic experience.

Is this forum out of touch with the entire rest of the community, or is this some big thing that I've somehow never heard of anywhere else?

"Summoner should go back to being a warlock and bring back ruin stacking/dots" is an example of when the forum is out of touch with the rest of the community.

"Endwalker's 2nd half of the story was poorly handled and Venat is a questionable character" is a sign that one can can actually analyze the story being told to them rather than just being carried by feels and expansion launch hype.

[Xeronia]

I've never been to this part of the forum before...but what?

Other than here, I've never seen any complaints about EW's story than some people thought the pacing could be better and the second trip to Laby felt a little filler to people and that EVERYONE knew the death fake-outs in Ultima were fake outs.

While those complaints are hardly nothing, they're also not supremely or critically damaging to the narrative, largely being mild annoyances marring an otherwise fantastic experience.

Is this forum out of touch with the entire rest of the community, or is this some big thing that I've somehow never heard of anywhere else?

I can only speak for myself but on reddit complaints get drown out with downvotes pretty quickly. I had argued them citing Zenos' death in an interview was not portrayed well in game and got downvoted to oblivion making my comment hidden. A lot of the people here have cited similar things from other platforms as well. My general observation over time has made me see that if you disagree with EW you get told "Didn't read the story", "must have skipped cutscenes", "you just don't understand literature", and my personal favorite "the majority liked it so you are wrong".

A lot of people have taken refuge in this very thread for that reason, we felt outcasted for not agreeing with the "majority" and honestly if that Omega quest and the "We went too far with Magical Girl Y'shtola" is anything to go by the official forums is the best place to bring these complaints.

[Kazhar]

I've never been to this part of the forum before...but what?

Other than here, I've never seen any complaints about EW's story than some people thought the pacing could be better and the second trip to Laby felt a little filler to people and that EVERYONE knew the death fake-outs in Ultima were fake outs.

While those complaints are hardly nothing, they're also not supremely or critically damaging to the narrative, largely being mild annoyances marring an otherwise fantastic experience.

Is this forum out of touch with the entire rest of the community, or is this some big thing that I've somehow never heard of anywhere else?

This is a weird post to me. Everything ever made gets criticized. The fact that you thought a story as average as EW would be somehow immune to it is a good sign you're living in an echo chamber.

The forum out of touch? Why does the forum need to be aligned with anyone else? The majority's opinions are not the law. And I feel everyone here throughly explained why they were disappointed with the story, whether you agree with them or not.

[Renathras]

Strange, what I said didn't seem controversial, yet four people posting to tell me I'm wrong in 13 minutes? o.O

Xirean: Where did I say people had no reasons behind being upset? People are SELDOM upset for absolutely no reason.

Avayond: I'm not exactly one prone to bouts of emotion. I can see a story has weakness while recognizing it isn't horribly bad or irredeemable because of it. There's emotionless analysis of a story and then there's (negative) emotion influenced analysis. You seem to be doing the latter while trying to claim that you're doing the former since the latter seems significantly more respectable. Anyone with a negative outlook can FIND things to dislike in even the best of stories and artistic, literary, or musical works. Don't mistake negative analysis driven by emotion to be superior to positive analysis driven by emotion. And certainly don't mistake it for neutral or non-emotional analysis.

Kazhar: Judging by what I've read of this thread, it appears to be more the echo chamber than most. That said, I feel a lot of forums end up being echo chambers. But I'm in several FFXIV casual discords (which are not - people complain about things there), follow several content creators (not all of who loved EW), and am aware of EW's critical acclaim and overall success, but also the disputes. FFXIV on Reddit is what it is, but FFXIVDiscussion has much more...well...discussion, including of its faults. Particularly the combat system overall and Job design. This thread seems far more likely to be an echo chamber than me looking holistically at the rest.

Xeronia: True about Reddit, the downvotes don't even have to be rational and brigading is...frequent. But reading my post, what made you think I was suggestion you had no right or were wrong to dislike EW? As I just said a bit ago in the thread on EW being "the most controversial expansion", I'll say again here: People can have different subjective opinions and that's perfectly fine. It does become a problem when people start thinking their subjective opinions are objective truths as well as when it lends to forming echo chambers. Bringing up concerns is fine. I didn't say otherwise. It's just this new "EW is a horrible expansion with a mediocre to horrible story" is just shockingly out of touch to me. I can understand people disliking some aspects of it, but EW was not a HORRIBLE story by any means. The main issues are as I noted with things like pacing and the Ultima weirdness. It wasn't PERFECT, and I'd reject anyone saying so, but it wasn't BAD, either.

Though I really did like the Omega quest, but I love that stuff in general, so I recognize not everyone might.

[Xeronia]

Strange, what I said didn't seem controversial, yet four people posting to tell me I'm wrong in 13 minutes? o.O

Xirean: Where did I say people had no reasons behind being upset? People are SELDOM upset for absolutely no reason.

Avayond: I'm not exactly one prone to bouts of emotion. I can see a story has weakness while recognizing it isn't horribly bad or irredeemable because of it. There's emotionless analysis of a story and then there's (negative) emotion influenced analysis. You seem to be doing the latter while trying to claim that you're doing the former since the latter seems significantly less respectable. Anyone with a negative outlook can FIND things to dislike in even the best of stories and artistic, literary, or musical works. Don't mistake negative analysis driven by emotion to be superior to positive analysis driven by emotion.

Kazhar: Judging by what I've read of this thread, it appears to be more the echo chamber than most. That said, I feel a lot of forums end up being echo chambers. But I'm in several FFXIV casual discords (which are not - people complain about things there), follow several content creators (not all of who loved EW), and am aware of EW's critical acclaim and overall success. This thread seems far more likely to be an echo chamber than me looking holistically at the rest.

Xeronia: True about Reddit, the downvotes don't even have to be rational and brigading is...frequent. But reading my post, what made you think I was suggestion you had no right or were wrong to dislike EW? As I just said a bit ago in the thread on EW being "the most controversial expansion", I'll say again here: People can have different subjective opinions and that's perfectly fine. It does become a problem when people start thinking their subjective opinions are objective truths as well as when it lends to forming echo chambers. Bringing up concerns is fine. I didn't say otherwise. It's just this new "EW is a horrible expansion with a mediocre to horrible story" is just shockingly out of touch to me. I can understand people disliking some aspects of it, but EW was not a horrible story by any means. The main issues are as I noted with things like pacing and the Ultima weirdness.

Though I really did like the Omega quest, but I love that stuff in general, so I recognize not everyone might.

Oh I didn't mean you, again in general that is the responses I see, I apologize I am running on like 4 hours of sleep due to someone in my house needing help this morning. EW is not a horrible story by any means and I do see why people would love it but the main themes just missed me really hard and then upon reflection I didn't like what it did to a lot of characters.

[aveyond-dreams]

Aveyond: I'm not exactly one prone to bouts of emotion. I can see a story has weakness while recognizing it isn't horribly bad or irredeemable because of it. There's emotionless analysis of a story and then there's (negative) emotion influenced analysis. You seem to be doing the latter while trying to claim that you're doing the former since the latter seems significantly more respectable. Anyone with a negative outlook can FIND things to dislike in even the best of stories and artistic, literary, or musical works. Don't mistake negative analysis driven by emotion to be superior to positive analysis driven by emotion. And certainly don't mistake it for neutral or non-emotional analysis.

Character growth stagnanted during Endwalker. People did not go from point A to B. Sacrifices that would have otherwise served to add a sense of depth and gravity to the plot were hand-waved one after the other. Random plot elements were introduced at the last minute and then quickly resolved/forgotten about. These are not the makings of a good story. Themes were forced in to the point of feeling like obtuse preaching and fell flat for no small amount of people from varied walks of life.

This isn't having a negative outlook, it's seeing what was actually put in front of me. Strip everything else away and that's about as neutral and fair analysis as you can get.

[CrownySuccubus]

Character growth stagnanted during Endwalker. People did not go from point A to B. Sacrifices that would have otherwise served to add a sense of depth and gravity to the plot were hand-waved one after the other. Random plot elements were introduced at the last minute and then quickly resolved/forgotten about. These are not the makings of a good story. Themes were forced in to the point of feeling like obtuse preaching and fell flat for no small amount of people from varied walks of life.

This isn't having a negative outlook, it's seeing what was actually put in front of me. Strip everything else away and that's about as neutral and fair analysis as you can get.

People have as much validity resonating with an awful story which had positive points that affected them on an emotional level as another person taking a high-brow critical analysis of said story and pointing out how none of it makes sense and is morally problematic. For example, it's possible to love the original Indiana Jones trilogy while acknowledging that it portrays Dr. Jones as predatory to minors, has one of the most annoying female leads in film history in the second film, and has an insultingly repetitive plot each film. Each of these things are valid points of truth about the movies and someone could reasonably state how much they dislike the movies and/or their characters. While at the same time other people (your truly included) can say how much they love the action and comedy, that the storytelling and cinematography are excellent for their time, and that the characters and repetitive stories are fun if you turn your brain off. Each of those people may point at each other and claim that the other "doesn't get it", but that doesn't make either opinion wrong or uninformed.

I didn't like Endwalker as much as most people did, but I can certainly see WHY people liked it. Especially specific story beats. It's nice to have a place where I can share the faults I found with the story, but it's easy to see validity in why others may have liked it.

[Xirean]

Strange, what I said didn't seem controversial, yet four people posting to tell me I'm wrong in 13 minutes? o.O

Xirean: Where did I say people had no reasons behind being upset? People are SELDOM upset for absolutely no reason.

I didn't say you were wrong nor did I say what you assume I said. I simply asked how much you had read, mostly because people have come into the thread without reading anything before. Also you asked a rather open question, that could be taken very easily as a jab. Why are you surprised that people respond to it?

[RyuDragnier]

Yeah, the forums are an echo chamber, in multiple areas. You'll see the same people posting about the same things often, and threads will skyrocket in pages even though it's the same 4-7 people talking (and often arguing). Look at some of the threads like the Dark Knight Megathread, the thread about deleting SCH actions, etc. It's often the exact same people having a discussion, though that's often because people prefer discord and reddit these days over forums.