What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

[Teraq]

I wanted to talk about ShB after the fact because I loved it. I needed to talk about EW after the fact because I hated it.

Oof I felt that... It was especially bad early December when you had to dance around spoilers and had few people to talk to. I honestly wasn't okay after Endwalker. I hate that it affected me and my mood so much.

I'm not saying that everybody who comes here to argue with the consensus has excellent points or argues in good faith. I'm just saying that it's not so much that the forums are better, but that this thread has been quarantined, whether you see that as a good or bad thing.

I think part of it is because of how many pages it's got... Personally I would be kind of intimidated by a 500+ page thread (silly thing to say, I admit) and probably wouldn't even bother reading most of it unless I was super invested. Good thing I joined around page 90 or so.

(Edit) I just don't see the problem much, either. It's one-sided, yes. I just consider it a response to the positive echo chamber. It's good to have this one little space at least.

[Xirean]

I think part of it is because of how many pages it's got... Personally I would be kind of intimidated by a 500+ page thread (silly thing to say, I admit) and probably wouldn't even bother reading most of it unless I was super invested. Good thing I joined around page 90 or so.

Sounds normal to me. When I jumped in here I only read a few pages before my initial post, was like 200 or something. I've never met anyone who reads a thread in full before posting when that thread is lengthy.

[Rulakir]

Oof I felt that... It was especially bad early December when you had to dance around spoilers and had few people to talk to. I honestly wasn't okay after Endwalker. I hate that it affected me and my mood so much.

I quit playing for about a month after EW and probably would've unsubbed if my SO hadn't recently bought the game. I think that once we finish 5.3 (we're currently in 4.0) making that decision will be a lot easier. I don't even see the point of going through EW. It also depends on what 6.2 brings. I'm cautiously optimistic based on the Omega quest chain, but Venat is too popular a character to completely ignore. Here's hoping her short story will just be about her and the original Watcher.

I consider myself to have one foot out the door, it depends on where things go from here.

What do you want, exactly?

The thread to get back on topic.

[CrownySuccubus]

(Edit) I just don't see the problem much, either. It's one-sided, yes. I just consider it a response to the positive echo chamber. It's good to have this one little space at least.

I'm not villifying anybody specific or this thread as a whole. Just pointing out that it's creating your own faction to counter another faction. Aka tribalism.

I don't see the problem.

I don't see how you couldn't? Half the people in this thread have stated how they, for example, felt drowned out or annoyed at trying to debate with people on other threads or platforms by people who all shared similar opinions. That's the exact same problem, but in reverse.

The thread to get back on topic.

You mean talking about how Zepla was wrong about this thread?

[Teraq]

Ironically, complaining via tags is the safest (and most passive-aggressive) way to complain.

I'm going to be frank: I like having my little echo chamber, because it feels like anywhere else is an opposite echo chamber. What you described is how I feel Reddit is like. It made me mentally exhausted in December and I didn't come back to either the main sub or Twitter.

And obviously people are going to congregate around similar people. Frankly having a place to vent with minimal backdraft feels absolutely wonderful.

[CrownySuccubus]

Ironically, complaining via tags is the safest (and most passive-aggressive) way to complain.

I'm going to be frank: I like having my little echo chamber, because it feels like anywhere else is an opposite echo chamber. What you described is how I feel Reddit is like. It made me mentally exhausted in December and I didn't come back to either the main sub or Twitter.

And obviously people are going to congregate around similar people.

I mean, I do too. It feels a little bit better to talk with people who aren't lavishing unending praise upon the story -- especially the parts I personally found morally repugnant.

We're simply reconfirming something I said a lot higher up in the thread.

...This place settles into its own division of cliques and echo chambers....

I really wouldn't call this an echo chamber. Even though most of us agree on the general topic of the thread, there's a lot of differences in how we interpret it and express it.

No, this thread has devolved into an echo chamber multiple times, especially when it comes to finding bad things to say about the story, the Scions and/or Venat. Unfortunately, "difference in expression" isn't what discredits an echo chamber. An echo chamber of 9 wolves and 1 sheep may have nine different ideas on how to cook the sheep, but it's still an echo chamber.

[Xirean]

I really wouldn't call this an echo chamber. Even though most of us agree on the general topic of the thread, there's a lot of differences in how we interpret it and express it. The pages where people posted rewrites is a good example of that. Honestly the main difference that I see between this and other threads is that when people start going uwu over a character, people here don't jump on the bandwagon of being thirsty for that character.

[Teraq]

I really wouldn't call this an echo chamber. Even though most of us agree on the general topic of the thread, there's a lot of differences in how we interpret it and express it. The pages where people posted rewrites is a good example of that. Honestly the main difference that I see between this and other threads is that when people start going uwu over a character, people here don't jump on the bandwagon of being thirsty for that character.

I like that "Endwalker was bad" is a wide enough subject that everyone has their own take on what exactly felt wrong.

I have looked at the tags, and honestly it seems like an even mix of them from both sides of the debate.

Of course! When you see people having such fun you naturally want to join in! Unfortunately we've reached the max limit, as you had just inspired me to add Mankind's first heroes, And his final hope

[Rulakir]

I don't understand the problem. Try to voice criticisms of EW on Reddit and see how far you get before you're downvoted until your post is hidden and dogpiled on by everyone telling you that you're wrong, you didn't pay attention, you were skipping cutscenes, you didn't understand the story/themes, etc. I know someone who made a bingo card based on the repetitive responses.

Xirean is right, we all have different reasons for disliking EW and don't always agree with one another. Also, at this point, I'm getting annoyed that this thread continues to be derailed about this when prior to the Zepla call out we were having some good discussions.

Yeah, EW is simultaneously my second favorite expansion after Shadowbringers, and my least favorite expansion. The parts I enjoyed and found compelling and well-written were still moreso than, again, anything except Shadowbringers, whereas the parts I disliked are the parts I probably most disliked in all of FFXIV and made me consider, for the first time ever, starting to skip cutscenes. It was, uh, sort of a stressful experience overall, in that way!

I've always said that I don't think the "bad" aspects of it were done maliciously, and that's part of why I'm willing to talk about it on the much-maligned official forums - a very, very naive hope, especially for a product-based corporation like this, lmao, that perhaps if the writers understood what had happened and what they actually ended up writing, it might actually mean something to them, and they might course-correct. (And perhaps they are...? Omega Quests Good, Please Continue In This Direction)

And for better or worse, I'm still talking about it and thinking about it actively, moreso, again, than any other expansion besides ShB - six months after the fact. Does that say more about me or the game? It Is A Mystery.

I wanted to talk about ShB after the fact because I loved it. I needed to talk about EW after the fact because I hated it. I'm the type of person to whom a bad ending can ruin an entire story.

I didn't dislike all of it, but Elpis carried EW hard. Like you said, it's a simultaneous feeling of both loving and hating it. I think that without Elpis, EW is a middling expansion. I enjoyed Garlemald, but I was bored out of my mind with Sharlayan/Labyrinthos. The moon was disappointing for a myriad of reasons. Thavnair was so-so. I have mixed feelings on UT. Elpis was just a bipolar experience of going from manic to depressive.

[CrownySuccubus]

Try to voice criticisms of EW on Reddit and see how far you get before you're downvoted until your post is hidden and dogpiled on by everyone telling you that you're wrong, you didn't pay attention, you were skipping cutscenes, you didn't understand the story/themes, etc. I know someone who made a bingo card based on the repetitive responses.

Yes, I already said that every other place is equally bad with dividing into factions and groupthink.

Also, at this point, I'm getting annoyed that this thread continues to be derailed about this when prior to the Zepla call out we were having some good discussions.

What exactly are you getting annoyed about, though? I said that 90% of the thread is good discussion, but sometimes it devolves into a circle-jerk.

What do you want, exactly? For everybody to step in line and admit that this thread is a flawless diamond?