What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

[aveyond-dreams]

I can understand having an exaggerated reaction when you have a 10,000 person twitch chat spamming you nonstop...but that isn't the norm for most players, and the added hype effect surrounding launch was very real. If those streamers were to play the game on their own, several months after launch when they could think clearly and analyse what was going on I imagine they would have very different reactions to that scene.

To this day I cannot believe how Endwalker never showed us the Hydaelyn vs Zodiark fight, but spent all the time and money possible on the college dorm room scenes in Sharlayan. As others have mentioned before, some of these slice of life scenes are downright embarrassing given the context of FFXIV as a whole - a game that started off serious but then grates on your patience with some of the more recent writing trends.

I know to expect silly classroom scenes when I play a Persona game, but at least those games actually build your party members up in a believable way over time. Here we're just expected to like people by default and if we don't then they just shove them down our throats anyway. Or, in the case of specifically G'raha Tia, you take a character who had a genuinely good arc to him only to later ruin it by turning him into a joke.

With the direction I see things going in, if you gave me the choice between suffering through Heavensward era-gameplay and even sacrificing new Summoner for the sake of getting the story back on track I'd gladly do so without question. Those of us who played FFXIV during that time period got to enjoy a time when the story didn't grate as much on one's patience as it does nowadays, with logical and consistent motivations driving each character. Ysayle and Estinien had attitude, something the rest of the Scions lack completely these days. 5 months after EW I can barely remember any memorable moments the Scions may have had, aside from the ones that became memes or those that I found particularly atrocious. I can still however remember when Ysayle's faith was shattered before her eyes, and all of Estinien's bickering with her.

Ishgard was also a setting that did much to help us fall in love with it, similar to how many fell in love with the First as well, instead of the whirlwind-tour style of storytelling from Stormblood and Endwalker. Endwalker specifically went "this is X zone, enjoy!" where as Shadowbringers went "this is X zone, these are the problems they are facing and why you should care, let's stay here until the problem is done before moving on to the next area." Stormblood failed in this regard because it followed EW's style for the first set of Gyr Abania zones, but succeeded in the East because those zones were more like those of Shadowbringers.

[Xirean]

So if EW was lackluster does that mean the next expansion will be good? As is right now it's kinda the pattern of good to bad to good. At least imo.

[PawPaw]

So if EW was lackluster does that mean the next expansion will be good? As is right now it's kinda the pattern of good to bad to good. At least imo.

I guess it depends on how you feel about ARR, SB and EW but the first two are generally considered the weaker of the EPs, with EW being absolute trash can tier for me. So I guess if we're looking at a pattern, the next EP should be great. I can't say I have much hope for the it though, considering how much the writers seem to have abandoned the idea of nuanced storytelling. Honestly, all the characters I loved the most are dead. Instead of expounding upon the wonderfully gray threads laid in ShB, they backtracked and shat all over the themes of that story.

While I don't really have any issues with the Scions as characters (except for Y'shtola) I honestly resent the fact that they all escaped the absolutely absurd series of events that made up the end of EW and are still alive and kicking while all of the people I cared about are dead. Just being around them really annoys me right now. What on earth could they present me with that would entice me to continue? They seem eager to abandon all of the plot points that made me invested in the story to begin with. Am I going to care about going to Meracydia/Corvos/New World, "proving myself" to whatever new people I meet there, solving their huge problems for them and ultimately becoming their savior? Doesn't sound appealing to me at all. Been there, done that more times than I can count.

And as much as I like Vrtra and feel sorry for him and his sister, again I feel pretty bitter that I am going to help him with his pain that he's been holding onto for 5k years when I was just told that it's objectively wrong to hold on to or change the past and that I should just always "forge ahead" and embrace change, good or bad, lest I end up so bored that I want to kill myself.

The preaching disgusts me. The lack of nuance disgusts me. The inconsistencies disgust me. A battle of "values" does not appeal to me since they have shown that it's more a case of they will tell me what my values are instead of my actually having a choice.

So, for me at least, they'd have to come up with something pretty extraordinary to get me to have the level of investment in this game that I had going into EW. My sub ends in a couple of days so I guess I'll just wait and see what the future holds.

[AnaviAnael]

Can't show Hydaelyn vs Zodiark, but gotta show the midnight Burger King run.

[KizuyaKatogami]

Can't show Hydaelyn vs Zodiark, but gotta show the midnight Burger King run.

I’ll just say when the confirmed most expensive animation this expansion was animating estinien’s foot….there’s something wrong. Couldn’t show the sundering. Couldn’t show the Hydaelyn vs Zodiark fight. My hateful bias towards this expansion aside, i just can’t fathom how you can have this big epic conclusion in the making and not have any cinematics whatsoever outside of trailers.

[AnaviAnael]

I’ll just say when the confirmed most expensive animation this expansion was animating estinien’s foot….there’s something wrong. Couldn’t show the sundering. Couldn’t show the Hydaelyn vs Zodiark fight. My hateful bias towards this expansion aside, i just can’t fathom how you can have this big epic conclusion in the making and not have any cinematics whatsoever outside of trailers.

What makes it even worse is that cutscene is dependent on the player choosing Estinien as the person who comes to meet them in their room. It's not a regular part of the story.

[Lucida3b]

Wait, wait. Estineins foot???

Why am i getting 1.0 flashbacks of misusing resources....

Yeah, I'm not sure who they're trying to appeal to these days. It certainly doesn't feel like Endwalker was actually a love letter to people who have been playing from 1.0 or 2.0. There's so many abandoned or leftover plot points that I would love to have seen addressed or at least given proper closure.

There's points where I've felt embarrassed to be playing this game. I never felt that way back in ARR, HW or SB. It was creeping in a bit at times in ShB but became much more common as of EW.

Maybe it's a good thing that they had such stiff cutscenes in earlier expansions because if it was full of so much ear wriggling, strange faces and slapstick comedy then I'd not have bothered investing in the game.

Instead I'd like balance - and more genuinely creepy moments like Garlemald and Edda's downfall.

Honestly Im not as averse to the anime comedy, but I do feel they need to tone down say the graha fanboy thing, let him be more casual with us as characters or use more of the crystal exarch personality.

On garlemald, I do think one of my favorite scenes is in fact the suicide of lord quintus, the repeating radio theme is just fantastic. I do feel like you can feel remnants of ideas of a separate expansion in the tonal shifts at times. Like I would argue the revisit to thavnir for example is dark, but it's a different dark from the bleakness of that scene in garlemald, or just the general VIBE of garlemald part.

[Xirean]

The sad thing is that I really liked that Estinein scene, but if I had to choose between that and the HvZ fight, I'd go for the fight hands down.

[Rulakir]

Re: streamers

Zepla's reactions in her playthrough were based, including being pissed off at the end of Elpis. Unfortunately, like all streamers, she has an audience to pander to who pay her bills so of course she changed her tune afterwards and started parroting their feedback.

I've mentioned before that Rich Campbell was an Ascian fan until his viewers started threatening his sponsorships and since then he just mirrors his audience.

Streamers are the worst place to get feedback because they're performers who are for the most part trying to keep their viewers happy and engaged because that's how they make money. You're generally not going to get authentic reactions from them.

What on earth could they present me with that would entice me to continue? They seem eager to abandon all of the plot points that made me invested in the story to begin with.

This. I genuinely do not understand the thought process behind rushing the conclusion to a story people loved, mishandling it so badly in the process, and then expecting to keep people hooked. I get the impression Yoshi-P legitimately thinks all players are like the WoL was depicted in EW, who just love going new places for the sake of it and fighting ever more challenging foes. The thing is I can get that in any given MMO. What I can't get in most of them is an immersive story.

I'm left feeling the same way of what do I have to look forward to because EW put an end to everything I was invested in and in an unsatisfactory way. Even if I do see something that grabs my attention (I haven't yet) I feel I shouldn't bother getting attached to anyone who isn't a Scion. Even that's secondary to my concerns about what 'values' are going to be thrust upon my character in the future since nuance has been tossed aside. Seeing as how I didn't feel I was ethically on the same page as the writers in EW it certainly does not inspire confidence in their storytelling going forward.

Also, while I'm glad to see new faces in the thread, I'm also sad that we're increasingly losing people like PawPaw who have unsubscribed over this. Not that I blame them.

[PawPaw]

I get the impression Yoshi-P legitimately thinks all players are like the WoL was depicted in EW, who just love going new places for the sake of it and fighting ever more challenging foes.

Honestly, we just went to the edge of the damn universe and fought the Macguffin of DESPAIR. What the actual f*** are they going to throw at us that's more threatening? The Rift? The scale just doesn't seem to match. And I somehow have zero interest in fighting any local warlords or getting involved in local politics right now .

If I could actually decide what my character did at this moment, she would take a Leave of Absence and wander around alone getting drunk and into bar brawls and questioning all her life choices. She's in mourning.