What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

[Lauront]

I actually liked the lore introduced/retconned in Shadowbringers. It made me wish that had been the plan from the start

I've always liked them, and particularly Elidibus and Lahabrea, to the point I would probably have dropped this game in their absence because of how lacklustre I otherwise found ARR, but I'll agree with the sentiment that it would've been good if there was a consistent thread throughout their writing, as it would've avoided a lot of the bizarre writing around tempering to explain away Lahabrea and Nabriales's zeal, and yielded a better experience overall.

The only thing that it really "ruined" in my estimation was that by firmly tying the Calamities to the Ascians' goals, it retroactively meant that they are SO bad at planning that they could only manage 1 Rejoining every several thousand years, and even then, they screwed up at least 1 of those attempts.

To be fair, that kind of thing happening to the entire world was a very novel state of affairs (particularly with the Void), and they do require the Source to recover from them so it can be primed for the next one. I don't think the writers did a good job covering off this element, especially as they wanted to hasten the pace as of the 7th, but they never explain why.

[Caurcas]

The Garlemald story itself was pretty solid. I just think it deserved to have a full expansion exploring beyond that arc and filling out the empire more.

The Ascian arc was, now that you mention, awful. Whatever depth Amaurot had given the Ascians was just...sundered by Endwalker.

Also, I gotta sneak in disappointment at the Myths of the Realm lore. We have spent a ten year story arc deconstructing the relationship between popular ideology and deities, shown that primals are created by faith of all forms and that gods effectively do not exist as anything but man-made constructs. But now suddenly none of that matters and surprise gods do exist. It undermines some of FFXIV's core themes, not to mention trivializes the entire Hydaelyn arc wherein we effectively killed the supreme god-figures of Etheirys.

A story needs to leave certain elements a mystery and unexplained. Over explaining tends to weaken a narrative. Enough has to be left to the audience to speculate and chew on.

[CrownySuccubus]

I'm still confused by the idea that the Garleans were ever anything more than "generic evil empire". That's pretty much been their entire schtick since day one.

It's cool if that's what some players like, but Garlemald was trying to do the same thing in Stormblood that they were doing in 1.0: build big machines and use them to conquer the world.

[KizuyaKatogami]

I'm still confused by the idea that the Garleans were ever anything more than "generic evil empire". That's pretty much been their entire schtick since day one.

It's cool if that's what some players like, but Garlemald was trying to do the same thing in Stormblood that they were doing in 1.0: build big machines and use them to conquer the world.

They had nuance to them though. From the very first EE it gives us insight on why they turned out the way they did, aka people stole their land and pushed them into uninhabitable land. That was always interesting to me because it made me think well, they’re just doing what was done to them. Seems fair to me lol.

[CrownySuccubus]

They had nuance to them though. From the very first EE it gives us insight on why they turned out the way they did, aka people stole their land and pushed them into uninhabitable land. That was always interesting to me because it made me think well, they’re just doing what was done to them. Seems fair to me lol.

If so, what's different? Not only do most of the Garleans still have that same motivation up to 4.x and beyond, but they've also added several more "sympathetic" motivations, such as the Garleans' hatred of religion being explained by The Burn to the IVth Legion wanting to help Gabranth create a nation where merit trumps birth and race, to non-native Garleans helping the Empire to protect their own families or to spite their own people after years of abuse.

The only two things I can think of that run counter to this are 1) the founding of Garlemald being revealed as the machinations of a Ascian and 2) Varis revealing that his ultimate goal is to cause the Rejoinings himself to create a new "superior race".

If that's what ruined Garlemald in your eyes, then I can kinda sorta get behind it, because I don't generally like "Current Bad Guy has really been behind every single problem ever, this whole time" (which, also, is a reason I didn't like Hermes/Fandaniel hijacking the Ascians' menace) and Varis' goal just turns the Empire from "evil nationalists" to flat out Reich-wannabes.

[RyuDragnier]

To be fair, that kind of thing happening to the entire world was a very novel state of affairs (particularly with the Void), and they do require the Source to recover from them so it can be primed for the next one. I don't think the writers did a good job covering off this element, especially as they wanted to hasten the pace as of the 7th, but they never explain why.

It seemed to me that Louisoix's halting of Bahamut did enough to prevent a ton of damage, so rather than having to wait, the Ascians were able to speed up. As for why they keep escalating and refuse to wait for us to die however...we can blame Nabriales for that.

He was explicitly told by Elidibus to not engage us, as we were potentially no longer a threat after losing our Blessing of Light, and might have had the way to kill them. They could have waited things out from that point on and possibly won because we'd never get a chance to try it out. But because Nabriales lunged for us, we discovered how the trick worked, and possibly could have developed a method to reach them in the Rift from there. It became a race against us to succeed in the next Rejoining before we found a way to halt them for good. All thanks to an overzealous Nabriales.

[AziraSyuren]

I was willing to give her the benefit of the doubt and say her hands were tied, even if the whole situation sucked and I thought the writing to justify it all was hamfisted and piss-poor... until that Q&A. Now I really cannot see how they can insist she's not a villain (a term Yoshi kept using for SHB Emet-Selch, to which he tries to compare her) or antagonist whilst also giving the answers they did in that Q&A. Just does not compute.

The thing is, even were she a villain, she wouldn't be an antagonist, because an antagonist is defined by their relation towards the focus characters. Even if they went to the necessary lengths to paint her as a villain in-story, if her actions didn't change, she'd still be a protagonist. Just a villainous one.

I know it's a semantic thing but it bugs me that people keep saying "antagonist" like it's just another, less damning word for villain.

[Lauront]

The thing is, even were she a villain, she wouldn't be an antagonist, because an antagonist is defined by their relation towards the focus characters. Even if they went to the necessary lengths to paint her as a villain in-story, if her actions didn't change, she'd still be a protagonist. Just a villainous one.

I know it's a semantic thing but it bugs me that people keep saying "antagonist" like it's just another, less damning word for villain.

Noted.

It seemed to me that Louisoix's halting of Bahamut did enough to prevent a ton of damage, so rather than having to wait, the Ascians were able to speed up. As for why they keep escalating and refuse to wait for us to die however...we can blame Nabriales for that.

He was explicitly told by Elidibus to not engage us, as we were potentially no longer a threat after losing our Blessing of Light, and might have had the way to kill them. They could have waited things out from that point on and possibly won because we'd never get a chance to try it out. But because Nabriales lunged for us, we discovered how the trick worked, and possibly could have developed a method to reach them in the Rift from there. It became a race against us to succeed in the next Rejoining before we found a way to halt them for good. All thanks to an overzealous Nabriales.

The first point is true - as to the second, do you recall where Elidibus told him not to engage?

Nonetheless, I can't say I see how Nabriales's folly forced their hand in any sense. Emet-Selch is so lopsidedly more powerful than the WoL at that point (and even in SHB, really), that they pose zero risk at that point, and there was never any indication that they'd take it to the Rift if the Ascians were to fall silent for a bit - so why not just wait out the WoL's death at that point? It's a possible explanation but not a great one, IMO. Another area where a coherent plan from the outset would've helped.

[SeverianLyonesse]

A story needs to leave certain elements a mystery and unexplained. Over explaining tends to weaken a narrative. Enough has to be left to the audience to speculate and chew on.

Myths of the Realm isn't over-explaining. The problem is that it's just a hair away from outright contradicting and/or retconning a boatload of established lore and themes. Practically the whole point of Endwalker (YMMV as to execution) was to demonstrate that hope and purpose can be found even in a disillusioned, post-religious world.

[Caurcas]

Myths of the Realm isn't over-explaining. The problem is that it's just a hair away from outright contradicting and/or retconning a boatload of established lore and themes. Practically the whole point of Endwalker (YMMV as to execution) was to demonstrate that hope and purpose can be found even in a disillusioned, post-religious world.

Is it post religious if the majority of a world's inhabitants are religious?