What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

[Xirean]

I can understand why Emet and the other unsundered want to do the rejoining while completely disagreeing with it. There's a very big difference between our society eating beef or pork and what Emet wants to do to the shards. He can talk to us and have a full on philosophical conversation with us. We have no way of doing that with cows or pigs. The moment we can the situation changes A LOT.

[KizuyaKatogami]

Yeah, I don't think this argument is very productive.

There's a lot of gray area and potential nuance between "Complete lack of empathy for other species" and "Balls into a corner crying if they eat beef jerky or accidentally step on an ant."

The thing is, the ancients didn’t have a lack of empathy for their creations. If they did the funeral rites wouldn’t exist whatsoever. I don’t think many people are saying it’s wrong for the sundered to hunt or whatever, but if we’re going to go around calling the ancients terrible for unmaking certain creations etc then we had better apply that to the sundered as well who caused countless species to be rendered nigh-on extinction amongst other things.

[Rulakir]

The comparison isn't veganism vs. rejoinings, it's vs. Elpis as a whole. I saw someone on Reddit refer to Elpis as a "slaughterhouse", which is absolutely ridiculous and just makes me think they have no idea where their food comes from not to mention that anyone who knows anything about animal testing would think Elpis was paradise. It's why I can't take a lot of the moral superiority arguments seriously when humans are much, much worse in every possible regard. It's weird that this is the moral standard of judgment when we ourselves don't come close to meeting it.

Also, animals are sentient and do panic when they realize they're about to be slaughtered. There's a reason there's such a high turn around for slaughterhouse workers and many of them end up going vegan after their experiences.

[KariTheFox]

I do think the ancients are better than us. I also think it's easy for them to be better than us because they amazing godlike powers and never experience hunger or poverty.

I'll hold them to a higher standard because they have more resources and knowledge at their disposal than us. And even then, I think thier society was mostly pretty good. The forces conformity is an issue, but I don't think anyone is saying they deserved their fate. It was a horrific tragedy.

[redheadturk]

I can understand why Emet and the other unsundered want to do the rejoining while completely disagreeing with it. There's a very big difference between our society eating beef or pork and what Emet wants to do to the shards. He can talk to us and have a full on philosophical conversation with us. We have no way of doing that with cows or pigs. The moment we can the situation changes A LOT.

The discussion at hand wasn't even the rejoining, it was the third sacrifice. And even with sentient familiars that could talk? Yeah, sorry, even then, into Zodiark's belly you go. I want mine back. And I'm not ashamed of the fact one bit.

[CrownySuccubus]

I do think the ancients are better than us. I also think it's easy for them to be better than us because they amazing godlike powers and never experience hunger or poverty.

I'll hold them to a higher standard because they have more resources and knowledge at their disposal than us. And even then, I think thier society was mostly pretty good. The forces conformity is an issue, but I don't think anyone is saying they deserved their fate. It was a horrific tragedy.

The story itself says that, though. Cookingway at one point flat out says that the Ancients sealed their own fates by "striving for perfection" instead of merely accepting suffering and mortal limitations. And lest we try to say "Well Cookingway was just one character with their own viewpoint", this is backed up by the devs stating that the Plenty was where the Ancients were headed before the Final Days and whatnot.

[KariTheFox]

And even with sentient familiars that could talk? Yeah, sorry, even then, into Zodiark's belly you go. I want mine back. And I'm not ashamed of the fact one bit.

And the point at which you are willing to sacrifice sentient beings who can feel, talk, and communicate for your own selfish reasons is the point at which you become a villain and the heroes of a story are obligated to stop you.

This is why the WoL could never see eye to eye with Emet-Selch. The unsundered people if the shards were the "talking dogs" that he planned to put to the slaughter.

[KizuyaKatogami]

And the point at which you are willing to sacrifice sentient beings who can feel, talk, and communicate for your own selfish reasons is the point at which you become a villain and the heroes of a story are obligated to stop you.

This is why the WoL could never see eye to eye with Emet-Selch. The unsundered people if the shards were the "talking dogs" that he planned to put to the slaughter.

Kobolds can talk. Limsans were fine with mass slaughtering them to steal their land. The Eden primals could talk. We still slaughtered them after giving life to them. I guess we’re the villain now boyo’s.

[KariTheFox]

The story itself says that, though. Cookingway at one point flat out says that the Ancients sealed their own fates by "striving for perfection" instead of merely accepting suffering and mortal limitations. And lest we try to say "Well Cookingway was just one character with their own viewpoint", this is backed up by the devs stating that the Plenty was where the Ancients were headed before the Final Days and whatnot.

I think there's a difference between deserving in some moral sense because you have sinned - and falling victim to a fatal flaw of your society that will inevitably lead to ruin. The difference might be subtle but I think it's important.

[Xirean]

The discussion at hand wasn't even the rejoining, it was the third sacrifice. And even with sentient familiars that could talk? Yeah, sorry, even then, into Zodiark's belly you go. I want mine back. And I'm not ashamed of the fact one bit.

Oh I wasn't replying to your point. That's a different situation entirely. People will naturally values those close to them over others. I won't fault people for wanting those they are familiar with back, I will however fault people for being pro "kill off these thinking talking beings to bring back the people I like more".