What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

[Rulakir]

And while their disinterest in anything besides what they're dealing with at that moment is aggravating, what frustrates me most of all is how uninterested our own character is in learning more about themselves or even, at the most basic of levels, learning more about how to use their own powers.

Yes, and it's so weird! We live in an age where people are doing DNA tests to find out their ancestry, meanwhile the Scions/WoL are told they're reincarnated Ancients and have twins on the other shards and they just don't care in the least.

I kept waiting for Thancred to react to Venat writing off Ryne and Gaia as necessary losses or point out just how cruel the deliberate destruction of the Ancients happened to be.

I still can't believe he never said anything to her about telling Minfilia to kill herself. Honestly, between that and the disregard for Ryne being left to die I found it extremely out of character for him. I'm going to maintain forever that Hydaelyn does temper.

[CrownySuccubus]

Pardon me while I sidle up to Brinne, grab her stick to proceed beating that horse...

They are portrayed as a blank slate except when they're not and our WoL's reaction to events is forced onto us. For example not being able to even question Hydaelyn's motives or reply with anger or even snark or any opinion other than the approved "loving acceptance" reaction. Then they are not at all a blank slate.

That is, in videogame terms, what a "blank slate" is. The player not having any agency to express their personal opinions on the events of the story.

I kept waiting for Thancred to react to Venat writing off Ryne and Gaia as necessary losses or point out just how cruel the deliberate destruction of the Ancients happened to be.

You said this before, and I as I said then, he DID react to Ryne. He specifically asks the Watcher what will happen to the First, and then later specifically tells you to go to Ryne as an equal, not as someone still in need of protection, and tell her what's going on and ask for her insight. Ryne decides to have faith in the Scions to find a way to stop the Final Days outright and not concern themselves with the evacuation plan.

The rest of the Scions simply come across as smug, overeducated university students to me. Given the makeup of this game's community, though, I suppose that explains why they're so popular.

Careful. The real-life politics are seeping in again.

[Theodric]

I still can't believe he never said anything to her about telling Minfilia to kill herself. Honestly, between that and the disregard for Ryne being left to die I found it extremely out of character for him. I'm going to maintain forever that Hydaelyn does temper.

Yeah, it's weird. I was always indifferent to Minfilia but it just felt...so off for Thancred to have nothing to say about the subject. If someone I knew sacrificed their life out of apparent necessity due to being led to believe that it was the only possible option on the table and it later turned out that it wasn't, actually, then I'd have some harsh words to say on the subject.

I suppose it fits with Venat's world view, though. Everyone is just a disposable tool in her quest to LARP as a 'supreme deity'. For someone who supposedly has nothing but love for mankind in general she sure does seem to put everyone in utterly horrific situations to the extent that some of the outright villains come across as caring more about their disposable lackeys as a result.

[aveyond-dreams]

The novelty of the Scions has long since worn off. Having to put up with them even now as we go into the 6.X patches is grating on my patience-though I understand if any future party members are still in the design phase at the moment, especially if we end up with characters that have completely new jobs joining the cast.

I maintain the position that there is no way for the Scions to carry us through Season 2 without it being extremely detrimental to the experience, not unless the writers suddenly become unafraid of letting things happen to them. In the past, the team was told to go play WoW to figure out how to rework gameplay. I say it's time for some of them to go play FFIX or FFVII and learn how to make a distinct main party again.

[Fiel_Tana]

That is, in videogame terms, what a "blank slate" is. The player not having any agency to express their personal opinions on the events of the story.

Blank slate is, as you put it:

The WOL is, and forever will remain, a blank slate, because they need us to self-insert into them.

Can't self insert when a forced ideal is opposed to your own morals etc. This game does give some wiggle room in replies fairly often, it doesn't effect the outcome since it's an MMO and we all need to arrive at the same point, but does allow for other responses to allow for that self insertion.

But my point stands that in that situation they do NOT treat the WoL as a blank slate, they force a viewpoint that is extremely problematic for some people.

[Theodric]

Careful. The real-life politics are seeping in again.

I didn't make any mention of politics in that particular post...

The novelty of the Scions has long since worn off. Having to put up with them even now as we go into the 6.X patches is grating on my patience-though I understand if any future party members are still in the design phase at the moment, especially if we end up with characters that have completely new jobs joining the cast.

I maintain the position that there is no way for the Scions to carry us through Season 2 without it being extremely detrimental to the experience, not unless the writers suddenly become unafraid of letting things happen to them. In the past, the team was told to go play WoW to figure out how to rework gameplay. I say it's time for some of them to go play FFIX or FFVII and learn how to make a distinct main party again.

I suppose we'll have to see who the 'new' character is as well, since supposedly we're meant to be getting one. I did spy what looks to be Riol in the trailer and I don't dislike him but I'll laugh if the 'new' character simply amounts to a secondary Scion being promoted to the main cast.

In general I'd like to see more characters who have zero ties to either the Scions or the Students of Baldesion. We've had a decade of both already, so it really is time for the safety blanket to be removed.

I'd personally like to see a cocky treasure hunter if we're pursuing the 'adventurer' angle. There's no need for every single character we work with to be entirely selfless after all. We're also in dire need of some unapologetically brash men to balance out the 'sassy' women like Alisae and Y'shtola.

[CrownySuccubus]

Blank slate is, as you put it:


Can't self insert when a forced ideal is opposed to your own morals etc. This game does give some wiggle room in replies fairly often, it doesn't effect the outcome since it's an MMO and we all need to arrive at the same point, but does allow for other responses to allow for that self insertion.

Yes, that's how blank-slate self-inserts typically work in videogames. What you're thinking of is a "custom avatar", where you are able to build your own character with your own moral choices and preferences.

A blank slate self-insert is a character that is as neutral and milquetoast as possible, on the hopes that this will allow players to headcanon as much as possible. The risk to such a character, as you have just described, is that occasionally, those players will come across something they feel strongly about and will lose the ability to insert themselves into the game character.

But my point stands that in that situation they do NOT treat the WoL as a blank slate, they force a viewpoint that is extremely problematic for some people.

Which is, again, the risk of a blank slate character. They simply do not react in a way the player wants, and typically remain hard-coded into the moral themes of the story.

I didn't make any mention of politics in that particular post...

You did, but I'll assume you just didn't realize it.

[KizuyaKatogami]

You did, but I'll assume you just didn't realize it.

How does any of what he said amount to real-life politics? For the person complaining earlier about people reaching for claims about venat, you do a lot of reaching yourself

[aveyond-dreams]

I suppose we'll have to see who the 'new' character is as well, since supposedly we're meant to be getting one. I did spy what looks to be Riol in the trailer and I don't dislike him but I'll laugh if the 'new' character simply amounts to a secondary Scion being promoted to the main cast.

In general I'd like to see more characters who have zero ties to either the Scions or the Students of Baldesion. We've had a decade of both already, so it really is time for the safety blanket to be removed.

I'd personally like to see a cocky treasure hunter if we're pursuing the 'adventurer' angle. There's no need for every single character we work with to be entirely selfless after all. We're also in dire need of some unapologetically brash men to balance out the 'sassy' women like Alisae and Y'shtola.

My preference for the main party moving forward is still for characters that serve as successors to the trio of Ancients, but overall what we need most is contrast and the balancing you mention.

Locke from FFVI and Zidane from FFIX as rogues/treasure hunters/thieves provided good entertainment when they were on screen, and would certainly fit the niche that Thancred left vacant. When it comes to sassy women, they work best when they have someone to bounce off and challenge, but there isn't anyone in the main party for Alisae to bicker with besides Alphinaud, once, in Il Mheg when she grabbed him by the collar.

To be honest though, the sass by now is just too annoying and stale. I miss when girl characters were allowed to be ditzy and silly, like some of Vanille's mannerisms from FFXIII or how interactions between Sarah and Garland went down with their completely different personalities. I even miss when Rikku practically opened FFX-2 with the word "disasterific." Traditional heroines in the way of Yuna or Terra seem largely absent. This is partly due to there being a strong aversion towards showing female cast members in vulnerable moments in FFXIV which would be critical for such characters to grow in meaningful ways. Yet it is perfectly fine to get long drawn out emotional cutscenes with G'raha Tia. For some reason.

I'd like to see a snarky mage type like Emet or even Kuja, so that we do not rely on antagonists alone for any fun theatrics. It does suck that the muscle of our party, Estinien and Thancred, have so much less going on for them right now and Estinien feels so toned down without the revenge plot driving his actions forward. I suppose they could draw inspiration from the likes of Auron, a warrior with a decent bit of mystery to him, or more light-hearted types like Steiner. Gladiolus is probably one of the better examples, protective and straightforward as he was, along with being unafraid to clash with the main protagonist.

This game is in serious danger of having forever characters like WoW has, which I understand has only barely gotten rid of Sylvanas.

[CrownySuccubus]

How does any of what he said amount to real-life politics? For the person complaining earlier about people reaching for claims about venat, you do a lot of reaching yourself

A common political position/dog-whistle is that modern universities are indoctrination machines for left-wing agendas.

Like I said, I'm willing to assume that Theodric didn't realize it. But regardless of whether he intended it to be political or not, inserting a random insult about university students/etc. in a conversation about the plot of FFXIV is super random.

Likewise, we should probably drop it from here at the risk of being accused of going off-topic again.