What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

[kpxmanifesto]

Zenos was a mistake. An uninteresting villain with only a mildly intriguing physical appearance. Most of his on screen time was linked to teases that went nowhere. Please do not waste my time like that again.

Agreed. Zenos' return after SB was a fan service, nothing more, nothing less. It would benefit SE greatly to never have him come back to FFXIV again.

[MoofiaBossVal]

I liked Zenos as the unexpected wildcard outside agent to the Scions vs Ascians conflict after Stormblood. Varis getting killed off without having done anything was eh, but I overall liked the Luca Blight direction Zenos was heading towards (mad, bloodthirsty prince who torments people and kills his dad and burns down his empire so he can have fun). My main disappointment with Zenos is that outside of the last scene of 5.0 and the bodyjack scene in 6.0, he never felt like a threat. He doesn't kill anyone who mattered or burn any towns. At the very least, Y'shtola's death in 4.0 should have stuck, and Zenos should have shanked either G'raha or Alisaie in 6.0.

Zenos would have felt threatening if he was actually doing bad guy stuff during the ShB patches, rather than just lounging around waiting for the next expac to happen (and even then, Zenos pretty much spends most of Endwalker doing nothing). Maybe he should have been trying to pursue the WoL to the First. Or maybe he would waltz into Mor Dhona or Ul'dah and start slaughtering people left and right until the WoL came. Or if the WoL was unreachable, maybe he would start hunting down Hraesvelgr and trying to derive entertainment from killing him. At least then there would have been tension from him. What Zenos did to the people of Garlemald is sad, but I literally met Jullus 10 minutes ago. For a villain so obsessed with trying to get a fight with the WoL, you'd think that he would try making the WoL extremely motivated to fight by killing the people or destroying places that the WoL cares about. But that ties back into nothing bad ever befalling heroes.

[Lauront]

I find Zenos preferable to the likes of G'raha or Alphinaud, but that isn't saying a great deal. Again, my enjoyment of him peaked in 4.0. His main use to me in 6.0 was a palate cleanser from all the syropy Alphirants (could be any Scion.) I really hope any future use of him is limited to his avatar, as I think his story has now had a fitting conclusion in EW.

Exactly. Everything that could have made the character interesting in game was relegated to side stories locked behind books that are never in print and Q&A questions that just happen to get answered. If you hadn't done the RPR questline you wouldn't even know that about an avatar and the soul. They handled his character terribly. But I still love my best friend.

I still can't believe they just casually explained him having dreams of the Final Days as "because he's Emet-Selch's great-grandson..." People were out here thinking he'd been experimented on in the womb and all kinds of wild stuff. But they never even bothered to put that information in the game, just matter-of-factly "duh, he's related to an Ascian". Imagine if no one had asked that question? We may never have known.

I never took that speculation too seriously, because Fandaniel was just spitballing at the end of the day. What did strike me as a possibility was that Emet-Selch may have ferried over a specific soul to become his. Some people actually think it's fact that he was experimented on, but I think they're misreading what Elidibus and Varis were discussing, certainly supported by the fact that the FR version has Elidibus attribute his use as a test subject to Varis and not the Ascians - a more logical reading of that, IMO, is that Elidibus was referring to being able to observe the outcome of Zenos's self-experimentation using the Resonance following Aulus's dismissal from the imperial court. Even if Varis thought his son was a madman, Aulus's research could (and did) prove valuable to the Empire.

Zenos would have felt threatening if he was actually doing bad guy stuff during the ShB patches, rather than just lounging around waiting for the next expac to happen (and even then, Zenos pretty much spends most of Endwalker doing nothing). Maybe he should have been trying to pursue the WoL to the First. Or maybe he would waltz into Mor Dhona or Ul'dah and start slaughtering people left and right until the WoL came. Or if the WoL was unreachable, maybe he would start hunting down Hraesvelgr and trying to derive entertainment from killing him. At least then there would have been tension from him. What Zenos did to the people of Garlemald is sad, but I literally met Jullus 10 minutes ago. For a villain so obsessed with trying to get a fight with the WoL, you'd think that he would try making the WoL extremely motivated to fight by killing the people or destroying places that the WoL cares about. But that ties back into nothing bad ever befalling heroes.

Yes, if he offed some of them and it stuck, I might've been more interested.

Zenos was a mistake. An uninteresting villain with only a mildly intriguing physical appearance. Most of his on screen time was linked to teases that went nowhere. Please do not waste my time like that again.

Aka the majority of SHB and a good chunk of EW.

As for Metetion, I had no interest in spending further time with her. Quite honestly, I'm annoyed we didn't put her down and allowed her to go free at the end to... sing more?! Cause that's not how we ended up in this mess in the first place or anything. :P Sure, she's cute and arguably innocent, but that doesn't make her not dangerous or suddenly forgiven for trying to wipe out all life in the universe. I'm particularly annoyed that she got a second chance, better antagonists than her never did.

Yeah, that's a good point. She does nothing for me as a character in all honesty. I'd rather that was the end of her.

[Thaciscokidd]

I overall liked the Luca Blight direction Zenos was heading towards (mad, bloodthirsty prince who torments people and kills his dad and burns down his empire so he can have fun).

Off topic: I dont think Ishikawa nor Oda could pull off a true Luca Blight or even half the cruelty of Luca Blight. That guy was a true terror with a tragic backstory that fed into his treacherous, bloodlust-fueled ways. A Luca in FF 14 would be super interesting but may be a little bit too grim dark for your average FF14 character.

Go play Suikoden II if you haven't!

[Nekokaori]

Off topic: I dont think Ishikawa nor Oda could pull off a true Luca Blight or even half the cruelty of Luca Blight. That guy was a true terror with a tragic backstory that fed into his treacherous, bloodlust-fueled ways. A Luca in FF 14 would be super interesting but may be a little bit too grim dark for your average FF14 character.

Go play Suikoden II if you haven't!

i mean ... final fantasy 10 has alot of that tragicness if you pay attention to the 2 main chars (not taking into account how ffx-2 made it lighth earted) or the overly depressing true story of Cloud strife, Honestly final fantasy has 2 many cases of massive tragic backstorys with real depth. if they can't even touch a cent of that lvl idk why they writing for square enix period.

I mean really ff8 everyone of your characters almost was an orphan being used to fight against a guys ex wife lol

not even counting ff9 vivi and zidane depth and tragic nature

or the rat ppl being genocide by a fat queen lol

[Rulakir]

It's been a long time since I played Suikoden II, but all I remember of Luca was I didn't like him. I don't recall what his motivations were or what his backstory was. (There were a lot of things I didn't like about II though, I thought the first game was better.)

I agree that Zenos never did anything to make me hate him. He was just an annoying obstacle in SB and all of his talk of wanting the WoL's 'rage and rancor' throughout ShB amounted to nothing. He would've had to have killed one of my favorite characters for me to hate him and among the Scions that is a short list. The only city I care about is Ishgard, so he would've had to specifically target it. Killing Edmont would've been unforgivable.

[Theodric]

JRPG's used to be bolder in general back in the PS1 and PS2 era. I used to think it was simply nostalgia but having dusted off some of the older titles that I enjoyed...the trials and tribulations that the cast of Breath of Fire IV went through as well as what happened in Shadow Hearts made me realise just how many punches are pulled in modern JRPG's. Most of my complaints about FFXIV can be summed up as too much grit being stripped away in general. There's no naughty jokes any longer. Nobody of note ever dies (to the point where many people are even sceptical of actual character deaths sticking) and the self proclaimed heroes walk away with everything they could possibly want at the end of each new story arc.

At the very least it'd be refreshing if Ga Bu or Halric died instead of having numerous patches spent on a fake 'WILL THEY OR WILL THEY SAVE HIM' as if it was ever in any doubt that things would work out perfectly in a game that seems afraid to have any consequences for anyone other than antagonists or protagonists that already had one foot in the grave due to being strategically side-lined already.

[Carin-Eri]

Have to confess, whilst Zenos annoyed the snot out of me for the vast majority of his involvement in the story I DID like the direction they took with him in the end. He clearly approached the WoL from a different angle when he appears at Ultima Thule - he wants to fight us again, sure, but this time he wants to go all out. No holding back. Remember that we held back in Stormblood, where our objective was to take him alive and have him stand trial. He committed suicide to deny that closure.
When he fights us in Ultima Thule there is no holding back from either party. He pours absolutely everything he has that fight - and so does the WoL. Two souls, more similar than either would care admit (in the Dark Mirror sense that Zenos himself referenced), burning their absolute brightest. And it's the greatest joy Zenos has ever known - the only joy he could ever share.

That said (and with the 'he's dead' statement in mind) I don't think he should be brought back. The problem with a character with the motivation Zenos had is that you're left with the 'and then what' trope. He is instantly recognisable, unwelcome anywhere, wanted to stand trial for war crimes and he can't really lay low hiding in a different body as they established his body was special. He wouldn't work as an ally, we don't need an anti-hero and as a rival.... we surprased him. His story ended in the right place, in the right way, in my opinion.

[Caurcas]

Another angle one could take is that 14's storytelling is hampered by its format. Being an MMO probably makes thing such as world state changes difficult, aswell as accounting for main character actions within a story sequence or cutscene with all the different jobs. So this probably leads to a necessary blandness and general inaction on the WoL's behalf.

[Nekokaori]

Another angle one could take is that 14's storytelling is hampered by its format. Being an MMO probably makes thing such as world state changes difficult, aswell as accounting for main character actions within a story sequence or cutscene with all the different jobs. So this probably leads to a necessary blandness and general inaction on the WoL's behalf.

false, just like how u can only see the ziggurats at a certain point of the story they could read x= this y =this and change whats viewd as they have been shown to do at times how people can believe such nonsense when they have shown us methods and ways to do it,

wouldnt need a billion different options

rlly would at most need 3 tops and not anythng major rlly to feel "immersive" even little things like one building destoryed or negative views on us if we selected x is enough

x y z =this change is all they would rlly have to to make it more lively... and it doesnt have to be major again even lightest change that has some depth could be amazing