What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

[Kaurhz]

Honestly, moral relativism.

[Xirean]

Well this thread went in a disturbing direction.

[CrownySuccubus]

So then if a garlean came up to us and offered to be killed for the garlean empires crimes it’d make everything a-ok?

The point is that Merlwyb indicates that she regrets and wants to make amends for the wrongs she's done. To be completely honest, I think offering to kill yourself to make up for past wrongs is the coward's way out. But my point is that the game did something. The Garlean government/military were still doing the exact same thing they always did, and it ended up destroying their own country.

[Theodric]

At any rate, I'm not particularly interested in seeing the thread be dragged off course every few pages. Nor am I going to stand for weird gaslighting aimed at those who like Garlemald or the Ascians. Which - as has been pointed out many times throughout the thread - has been a problem for near enough a decade within this game's community.

Also, Merlwyb was encased in heavy plot armour and allowed to stick around and change her ways. A luxury most antagonists are not afforded and a large part of the reason why the likes of the Scions are considered to be boring by many. Having more antagonists change course would be appreciated - and easily put them in line with the likes of Beatrix, Seifer, Rufus, Golbez and various other antagonist characters who opposed the self proclaimed 'good guys' yet didn't end up being unceremoniously killed off without the opportunity to walk a different path.

Even then, it's debatable as to how horrid Merlwyb's supposed crimes even were. Pretty much every nation in existence in both the real world and Etheirys is built on conquest and land acquisition. Often due to necessity at that.

[CrownySuccubus]

Nor am I going to stand for weird gaslighting aimed at those who like Garlemald or the Ascians. Which - as has been pointed out many times throughout the thread - has been a problem for near enough a decade within this game's community.

Not what "gaslighting" means, but okay.

Also, Merlwyb was encased in heavy plot armour and allowed to stick around and change her ways.

If they did that with the Garleans, that would have been fine. I have no problem with villains redeeming themselves. I actually really like post-ARR Gaius as a character, even though I still think he was a horrible person.

[Theodric]

Not what "gaslighting" means, but okay.

Given that both myself and others posting within this thread have dealt with weird personal attacks and death threats for expressing fondness for both the Ascian and Garlemald story over the years that we've played this game, I'm actually well aware of what gaslighting consists of.

I'm referring to comments such as this:

Nothing is wrong with "liking" Garlemald per se, but you and Aveyond both do have a pretty strong romanticization of the country and its militarism that goes well beyond just a "villains are cool" viewpoint.

A deliberate attempt to attribute something deeper than what is actually there to justify standing upon a podium to lecture everybody about complex ideological issues. You do you, though not everybody posting here wants to drag such issues into everything. They just want to appreciate a cool story at the end of the day.

I'd even argue that it's not even relevant to the thread itself, which is primarily about the actual and perceived issues with Endwalker's story. Policing people's personal tastes and preferences does not serve to make for a healthy discussion.

[CrownySuccubus]

Given that both myself and others posting within this thread have dealt with weird personal attacks and death threats for expressing fondness for both the Ascian and Garlemald story over the years that we've played this game, I'm actually well aware of what gaslighting consists of.

I'm referring to comments such as this:

So you DON'T know what gaslighting is.

Gaslighting is the attempt to make someone doubt their own memory or mental faculties through deception.

What I did was make an observation. It's a fact that you romanticize the country. You proceeded to defend them by doing just that: romanticizing their actions as non-villainous. So you basically proved what I claimed to be correct.

I repeat: you can feel free to like what you like. But others are also free to not agree with your reasons.

[aveyond-dreams]

Admittedly I skimmed the past few pages but it seems my name was brought up because I happen to like Garlemald, seemingly by a poster who derailed the thread at least twice in the past with tangents having to do with real world cultural influences about Australia and more recently, Japan. There isn't anything particularly complicated about why I like Garlemald:

I like snowy places. I like places associated with Magitek in several Final Fantasy games, I just think they're interesting. (Especially when this game didn't give me a San d'Oria to root for early on, and then proceeded to turn Ishgard into republic.) I enjoy their militaristic aesthetic. Black, red, and gold color motifs made for a strong impression. A lot of Garlean characters are more fleshed out than their Eorzean city-state leader counterparts.

I literally do not care that they invade countries. There is no nation state in FFXIV that is wholly innocent. Garlemald as a snowy empire veiled in darkness made me want to explore it and discover what other mysteries it may have had in store. I think I started to get more into them around the time the game expanded upon Roaille's role as a spy and the scene where Varis spit on his grandfather's grave, offering us our first view of the Garlean Imperial Palace. That's when I knew they meant business, and what initially sold me on Varis as a character early on.

I'm not interested in apologizing for liking the Empire's vibe, its characters, or being able to understand the motivations underlying the actions those characters take. They provided a lot of entertainment and made good use of screentime, or at least they were until the writers decided to wrap everything up so quickly. Now I have to wait and see what will keep me invested in the story moving forward, because the gods, Ascians, and magitek empire have exited the plot.

[Xirean]

So you DON'T know what gaslighting is.

Gaslighting is the attempt to make someone doubt their own memory or mental faculties through deception.

What I did was make an observation. It's a fact that you romanticize the country. You proceeded to defend them by doing just that: romanticizing their actions as non-villainous. So you basically proved what I claimed to be correct.

I repeat: you can feel free to like what you like. But others are also free to not agree with your reasons.

This is not the point of this thread. Please drop the subject.

[CrownySuccubus]

This is not the point of this thread. Please drop the subject.

If someone replies to me or posts something about what I did or didn't say, I'm going to answer.

That besides, we are talking about the fate of Garlemald, which is directly about the plot of Endwalker.