What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

[Kozh]

Same... But seeing as she can use Armiger, all will be forgiven once they add Kingsglaive as a job. Make it happen SQUARE!!!

Ngl, if they do added it, I think I will never switch job lol.

Scouting job, mystic knight style (reverse rdm). OGCD skill using different weapon visual (like mch drill, chainsaw, etc). Do it Square.

[Theodric]

I think part of the problem is that the writers assume that people just relate with the Sundered first and foremost because 'tHeY aRe Us', conveniently ignoring that actually many of us relate to or at least sympathise with the game's antagonists. In no small part because they do a pretty impressive job defying fate and finding ways to try and continue surviving despite being forced to navigate impossibly brutal situations with no convenient quick fixes and attempts at sabotaging their efforts at every turn.

I don't care for most self proclaimed 'heroes'. They're not good people. They're selfish people who prioritise their own interests and that of their loved ones only to screech and drool over themselves as they call out the 'bad guys' who in many cases are behaving no differently...but happen to have actual stakes and meaningful losses to deal with.

All in all, it all comes back to a weird insistence that the 'bad guys' are an inconvenience for not giving up on their loved ones, or letting themselves go extinct/be subjected to genocide. Whereas the moment some minor character that the 'heroes' like is mildly inconvenienced heaven and earth need to be moved in other to save them.

Yawn.

Don't feed me a plot about 'mOvInG oN' when you're not even prepared to ever have the status quo for the protagonists change. WoW handled it better despite its flaws. At least it cared enough to realise that having the same leader for every city in the same position for over a decade wasn't a good idea.

My main regret was buying into the idea that this game was going to have a consistently mature and thought provoking story.

[aveyond-dreams]

My main regret was buying into the idea that this game was going to have a consistently mature and thought provoking story.

And now it seems that those of us who were captivated by the likes of Heavensward and Shadowbringers must now cede territory to those who'd be content with circular fluff plots that go nowhere, combined with job changes that range from meh to ludicrous.

[Theodric]

And now it seems that those of us who were captivated by the likes of Heavensward and Shadowbringers must now cede territory to those who'd be content with circular fluff plots that go nowhere, combined with job changes that range from meh to ludicrous.

Yeah. It's a real shame, since the earlier expansions were definitely laying the groundwork for future expansions that would involve a lot of depth, nuance and grit. I don't think I'll ever care about the game's story again in the same way as I did in HW or ShB.

What's the point in caring about any of the current plot threads if there's a genuine risk that any investment will be rewarded by a sudden abandonment or misdirect? As well as shoehorning the likes of G'raha into everything...

[Rulakir]

The codex entry. I liked it better when I hadn't read it and just thought "Hydaelyn" referred to the planet like the moron I am. idk how the English version goes, but the French entry says she did the Sundering "to stop those who would give all future lives in hopes of restoring days gone", and once again bashes us over the head with how much she loved the planet and its inhabitants over all.

Well, at least that confirms it's not just an ENG localization issue? Yay? :\

Last thing: how long are we going to hang on every word Emet-Selch ever uttered before leaving?

Forever, because they wouldn't give us a better ending. (I see you, Kozh! Why you hiding this stuff from us?)

As an Emet fan, I'll take what I can get at this point since they wouldn't give us an AU or have Emet stay in any meaningful capacity beyond flashbacks. Guess he's our new Haurchefant, look forward to that. :P

Thinking on it further, it's outright cowardly that the writers did not show the direct effects of Venat's actions. Instead of the caricatures we saw in the Dead Ends and Venat's walk of shame we really needed to see the Sundering from the perspective of some regular, normal Ancients who were just trying to do right by their loved ones only to be brutally subjected to genocide.

As Teraq said, "changing her into a villain would be excessively simple" and I'm going to add that the entirety of EW (if not the game as a whole) actually makes sense if they just write Hydaelyn as having tempered everyone.

I think part of the problem is that the writers assume that people just relate with the Sundered first and foremost because 'tHeY aRe Us', conveniently ignoring that actually many of us relate to or at least sympathise with the game's antagonists.

They shouldn't have 1) made the Ancients so sympathetic/relatable and 2) made the WoL a reincarnated Azem if they wanted everyone to be #TeamSundered.

Why wouldn't I want to have a whole soul and creation magicks? Why wouldn't I want Emet and Hythlodaeus as my BFFs as opposed to the Scions? Why wouldn't I want fun adventures as opposed to being a war mascot who's consistently used by people to win their battles for them? Why wouldn't I want a world that looks like Elpis or Amaurot? Additionally, why wouldn't I be upset all that had been taken away from me?

It's like waking up from a great dream, being slapped in the face by reality, and then you're supposed to be happy about it. Oh, yay, so glad to be back at the Rising Stones with the Scions. *sigh*

[PawPaw]

They shouldn't have 1) made the Ancients so sympathetic/relatable and 2) made the WoL a reincarnated Azem if they wanted everyone to be #TeamSundered.

Why wouldn't I want to have a whole soul and creation magicks? Why wouldn't I want Emet and Hythlodaeus as my BFFs as opposed to the Scions? Why wouldn't I want fun adventures as opposed to being a war mascot who's consistently used by people to win their battles for them? Why wouldn't I want a world that looks like Elpis or Amaurot? Additionally, why wouldn't I be upset all that had been taken away from me?

It's like waking up from a great dream, being slapped in the face by reality, and then you're supposed to be happy about it. Oh, yay, so glad to be back at the Rising Stones with the Scions. *sigh*

There was that scene on the bridge with Venat and the player character where she asks us about our world and whether it was still beautiful. I laughed so very hard because reading the response options...the very idea that I was supposed to be thinking that the world I came from was pretty great comparatively was....not happening.

Instead, I recalled the first time that I saw Amaurot and how it made my breath catch in my throat. How the same had happened when I saw Elpis. Thought about how much I had instantly loved Hythlodaeus and even tsundere Emet-Selch and how I wished I could have been friends with them in the here and now. About how much had been lost. I smashed that "it's more beautiful here" button so damn fast; because for me, it was the absolute truth. Being told that I had to return to the Source was like having a bucket of cold water thrown over me whilst in the midst of the most beautiful dream in the warmest, coziest bed.

I wanted to see so much more; what was Amaurot like when it was busy and bustling, what was Anyder like when filled with researchers, what was a typical day in the life of an Ancient like, wtf did those grapes taste like?! I wanted more and I wanted to save them somehow because the more I saw, the more it was driven home that they did not deserve this, no matter how much Yoshida apparently thought he was making them "scary" whilst not being aware of the irony of suggesting their actions were unconsciously inhumane when my character comes from a world where inhumanity is happening every minute of every day, and most of it is done knowingly.

But that's the lesson of the day, folks. Seeking contentment and happiness in your post-scarcity world is just silly and weak and you don't deserve it. Suffering is the only thing that makes you strong and human.

[YukikoKurosawa]

snip

The entire theme of Endwalker (Existentialism, finding the meaning in life, moving on from the past) was just totally out of left field and none of these core themes were in any way, shape, or form explored in the story prior to Endwalker.

I certainly wasn't questioning the very meaning of existence while I was listening to a Darth Vader wannabe monologuing about his quest for power in ARR. At no point in the story were these kind of questions asked. FFXIV was never a deep, philosophical story and it's sudden 180 into being just that in Endwalker was extremely jarring. That's part of why a Lavos-style eldrich abomination for the big bad would've worked a lot better because it would've fit more in line. FFXIV has never been about deep themes. Compelling storylines, with serious moments interspliced with levity here and there, and carried by a solid cast of characters with depth, and villains who have sympathetic, understandable motives? Yes. A deep, thematic story that leaves you with serious meaningful questions? God no. This is not and has never been high literature nor does it need to be, and it really should not be trying to now.

These themes were extremely ham-fisted and though while I think ultimately it worked (barely, they managed to tie those core themes into the entire origin story of the world itself as the Sundering happened because Venat had these philosophical questions leading to her ultimate decision), it's obvious that it was never the original intention for the story and a sign that the writers don't really have a clear, consistent direction for the plot.

[Lauront]

That whole musing of hers was laughable. It'd be a step for original mankind, not "the first step", if he didn't then go doom the entire universe some like whiny little self-indulgent brat, and wipe memory of it.

[Teraq]

The hilarious thing was seeing people on Twitter and reddit after that letter talking about how genius it was as an idea.

I actually don't know what they meant by this. Am I to understand that Hermes just built his Twitter botnet that eventually degenerated into a feedback loop of nihilism which he then constantly doomscrolled through and retweeted, at the expense of the few human contacts he actually had? Is he meant to be a parody of a blackpill echo chamber? Or did they mean they were inspired by the "ASCIAN/GARLEAN STANS AND PROSHIPPERS DNI PLEASE READ MY CARRD" crowd? I am hopelessly confused.

It was, like, so deep man. Almost as deep as "life is suffering" as a concept. Seriously, who hit Ishikawa over the head with the bad writer stick during this writing process?

Twitter, is there a point to living? WHY LIFE IF DEATH?????

[PawPaw]

Am I to understand that Hermes just built his Twitter botnet that eventually degenerated into a feedback loop of nihilism which he then constantly doomscrolled through and retweeted, at the expense of the few human contacts he actually had?

I mean...sounds like Twitter to me.

...That wasn't just a joke? I seriously thought that was just a meme.

Sadly no...