What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

[SpectrePhantasia]

What I liked about the Ancients in Shadowbringers was that they were basically just a better form of humanity. More long-lived, more powerful and more compassionate for their fellow man. There really was no argument as to whether or not humanity as it stood was better than them, because they weren't. I feel like it severely detracts from the effectiveness of Emet-selch as a villain if he were just wearing heavy rose-tinted glasses and everything we saw about them was an overly idealized lie. He'd been living among the Sundered for centuries and bore witness to every one of their flaws. I really liked it when for once there is a scenario in which life as we, the protagonist knows it, loses out. A moment where we sit back and consider that maybe this man has a point. Of course Emet-selch is still a villain at that point and I'm certainly not saying he was right, but antagonists having real valid points against the protagonists is what adds that much-needed depth to conflict. I'm trying not to let Endwalker spitting in the face of that get to me.

That being the case, desiring a fully rejoined Azem seems to be counterintuitive to this idea. Ardbert rejoined the WoL because a soul of that density was needed for the WoL to fend off the light of the Flood. I don't think, were he given the chance to be himself again, that he would choose to stay with us. The same goes for any Azem counterparts in other shards. Why should they surrender their lives so that they can join some greater whole that may not even resemble themselves anymore? They should be free to live their own existences. The circumstances are actually rather similar in nature to the Nobodies in Kingdom Hearts, which I can't help but mention.

As an aside, I think it would be cool to have a future antagonist be the Voidsent of Azem, their 13th reflection. No particular reason for saying that aside from it being a personal wish of mine with a lot of potential, but I'm very curious about Azem's other fragments.

[Lauront]

FWIW, the game does double down on the souls being persistent entities. The idea of souls breaking down and re-combining in the Aetherial Sea is a theory that holds equal sway in Sharlayan, but the story very strongly pushes towards the former theory being correct, right down to G'raha theorising that Fandaniel's soul always had a propensity to existential angst, and we of course know now that the sundered are remnants of the ancients. Even the method of "destroying" Ascian souls is laid out more clearly in the FR version as banishing the soul to the Aetherial Sea, rather than erasing it. Venat's soul being destroyed that way is exceptional in the context of the story. So division (and repair) of a soul is possible, but wholesale destruction is very rare and the sort of thing that Meteion was aiming to, but was thwarted from achieving. Personally, I also don't like the idea of leaving the souls or world broken and hope it repairs over time.

It also makes me curious why Hydaelyn claimed each rejoining made her weaker.

Presumably Zodiark would gain strength and she'd have to work harder to restrain him. With that said, she's a primal and can tap into other power sources, and she mentions her strength fluctuating, and it's also worth noting that the way they premised it in the Q&A is that if the primal's heart is destroyed, so are the rest of its fragments on the other Reflections.

[Fiel_Tana]

But it seems to make sense that Hydaelyn and Zodiark would both be gaining the same amount of strength with each rejoining? So the struggle would remain balanced, unless perhaps she had less external sources to tap into. Though those sources would also expand with each rejoining, yeah?

A minor point really, so I'm not overly focused on it, but it always seemed to be another of her "gross embellishments" as the watcher put it.

[CrownySuccubus]

They probably should've called it something else then or elaborated more on the soul system they have in mind for the game's lore.

That's still kind of a "monotheistic" perspective, though. One of the major things about non-Abrahamic belief systems is uncertainty. I'm pretty sure the devs didn't feel it was necessary to "explain" how souls work and things like that because, in most cultures outside of the Judeo-Christian (and Muslim) sphere, things like souls are inherently unexplainable. In most forms of folklore, souls have basically no rules and pretty much do whatever the specific myth or legend needs them to do.

That's one of the reasons I keep bringing up cultural differences in this thread. Things that are bugging some of the people here are things that are just "common sense" to other audiences. It'd be like if you made a story in which a character says, "God is our Lord and savior" and then someone else asked, "Uh...which god is he talking about?". Most people within our specific culture would consider the answer common sense and never even think they'd need to elaborate on that question.

[Lauront]

But it seems to make sense that Hydaelyn and Zodiark would both be gaining the same amount of strength with each rejoining? So the struggle would remain balanced, unless perhaps she had less external sources to tap into. Though those sources would also expand with each rejoining, yeah?

A minor point really, so I'm not overly focused on it, but it always seemed to be another of her "gross embellishments" as the watcher put it.

I think the idea they're going with is that his power is disproportionately greater, so he gains relatively more than she does, but yes there is the possibility it was also exaggerated somewhat and I agree that it sits somewhat weirdly with the Source being reinforced with each rejoining. They're vague about her power waxing and waning, in all honesty, beyond her stipulating that it is the case.

[Theodric]

We wouldn't want Venat to risk breaking a nail. Sitting in the middle of the aetherial sea and sending out 'hear, feel, think' on autopilot and refusing to elaborate on anything is taxing work for a supreme deity.

[Rulakir]

I'm still not convinced Hydaelyn was sundered. Aside from one line from the Watcher there's nothing else supporting it. Even during her trial the power she draws upon is the aether of her own soul, shouldn't she be able to use dynamis if she's sundered? Plus, given her difficulty containing Zodiark and inability (or disinterest) in protecting the shards it doesn't make sense for her to have split her power that way.

Ardbert rejoined the WoL because a soul of that density was needed for the WoL to fend off the light of the Flood. I don't think, were he given the chance to be himself again, that he would choose to stay with us. The same goes for any Azem counterparts in other shards. Why should they surrender their lives so that they can join some greater whole that may not even resemble themselves anymore? They should be free to live their own existences.

Ardbert didn't exactly have a lot of options. He was seemingly incapable of returning to the aetherial sea, doomed to wander the First indefinitely, and if the WoL had failed he would've ended up rejoined with them anyway.

I'm not saying people should suicide themselves into the WoL but, like Ardbert, I'd assume the merger with the 13th shard would be mutually beneficial.

[Lauront]

Although LBs aren't confirmed to be a dynamis thing, it's worth noting Elidibus can utilise them as a primal, and go over and above that by blocking them. If they do confirm that to relate to dynamis manipulation, the sheer amount of prayer which resides in a primal and the changes it causes to the individual may have something to do with it (and it'd further raise questions as to the logic of sundering mankind to manipulate dynamis... which in reality, as noted by others, seems ancillary to her real aim, i.e. ensuring suffering wasn't absent, to avoid the supposed trajectory of the Plenty.) I suspect it'd be difficult to tell even if she could, because on some level it is ultimately just a fuel source, albeit affected by emotions.

Also, she confirms she's sundered in the Word of the Mother scene as well. My guess is that because she's still inside the primal but acting as its heart, the exact mechanism of it is different to how it affects a "regular" ancient and instead parts of the primal are segmented while the heart remains on the Source.

[Rulakir]

Shouldn't she have surviving soul shards then? Her being sundered is just messy. Like, why didn't she suffer any of the same consequences of it that everyone else did? Zodiark becoming increasingly more powerful with rejoinings while she's at a fixed (whole) power level would also make more sense.

[Xirean]

Although LBs aren't confirmed to be a dynamis thing, it's worth noting Elidibus can utilise them as a primal, and go over and above that by blocking them. If they do confirm that to relate to dynamis manipulation, the sheer amount of prayer which resides in a primal and the changes it causes to the individual may have something to do with it (and it'd further raise questions as to the logic of sundering mankind to manipulate dynamis... which in reality, as noted by others, seems ancillary to her real aim, i.e. ensuring suffering wasn't absent, to avoid the supposed trajectory of the Plenty.) I suspect it'd be difficult to tell even if she could, because on some level it is ultimately just a fuel source, albeit affected by emotions.

Also, she confirms she's sundered in the Word of the Mother scene as well. My guess is that because she's still inside the primal but acting as its heart, the exact mechanism of it is different to how it affects a "regular" ancient and instead parts of the primal are segmented while the heart remains on the Source.

As far as limit breaks being dynamis, I'd say for players that's pretty clear cut. Enemies or NPC's however is still suspect. You mentioned Elidibus, but don't forget that as a trust Emet also uses limit break and quite frequently too.