What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

[Rulakir]

And while their disinterest in anything besides what they're dealing with at that moment is aggravating, what frustrates me most of all is how uninterested our own character is in learning more about themselves or even, at the most basic of levels, learning more about how to use their own powers.

Yes, and it's so weird! We live in an age where people are doing DNA tests to find out their ancestry, meanwhile the Scions/WoL are told they're reincarnated Ancients and have twins on the other shards and they just don't care in the least.

I kept waiting for Thancred to react to Venat writing off Ryne and Gaia as necessary losses or point out just how cruel the deliberate destruction of the Ancients happened to be.

I still can't believe he never said anything to her about telling Minfilia to kill herself. Honestly, between that and the disregard for Ryne being left to die I found it extremely out of character for him. I'm going to maintain forever that Hydaelyn does temper.

[Theodric]

I still can't believe he never said anything to her about telling Minfilia to kill herself. Honestly, between that and the disregard for Ryne being left to die I found it extremely out of character for him. I'm going to maintain forever that Hydaelyn does temper.

Yeah, it's weird. I was always indifferent to Minfilia but it just felt...so off for Thancred to have nothing to say about the subject. If someone I knew sacrificed their life out of apparent necessity due to being led to believe that it was the only possible option on the table and it later turned out that it wasn't, actually, then I'd have some harsh words to say on the subject.

I suppose it fits with Venat's world view, though. Everyone is just a disposable tool in her quest to LARP as a 'supreme deity'. For someone who supposedly has nothing but love for mankind in general she sure does seem to put everyone in utterly horrific situations to the extent that some of the outright villains come across as caring more about their disposable lackeys as a result.

[aveyond-dreams]

The novelty of the Scions has long since worn off. Having to put up with them even now as we go into the 6.X patches is grating on my patience-though I understand if any future party members are still in the design phase at the moment, especially if we end up with characters that have completely new jobs joining the cast.

I maintain the position that there is no way for the Scions to carry us through Season 2 without it being extremely detrimental to the experience, not unless the writers suddenly become unafraid of letting things happen to them. In the past, the team was told to go play WoW to figure out how to rework gameplay. I say it's time for some of them to go play FFIX or FFVII and learn how to make a distinct main party again.

[Theodric]

Careful. The real-life politics are seeping in again.

I didn't make any mention of politics in that particular post...

The novelty of the Scions has long since worn off. Having to put up with them even now as we go into the 6.X patches is grating on my patience-though I understand if any future party members are still in the design phase at the moment, especially if we end up with characters that have completely new jobs joining the cast.

I maintain the position that there is no way for the Scions to carry us through Season 2 without it being extremely detrimental to the experience, not unless the writers suddenly become unafraid of letting things happen to them. In the past, the team was told to go play WoW to figure out how to rework gameplay. I say it's time for some of them to go play FFIX or FFVII and learn how to make a distinct main party again.

I suppose we'll have to see who the 'new' character is as well, since supposedly we're meant to be getting one. I did spy what looks to be Riol in the trailer and I don't dislike him but I'll laugh if the 'new' character simply amounts to a secondary Scion being promoted to the main cast.

In general I'd like to see more characters who have zero ties to either the Scions or the Students of Baldesion. We've had a decade of both already, so it really is time for the safety blanket to be removed.

I'd personally like to see a cocky treasure hunter if we're pursuing the 'adventurer' angle. There's no need for every single character we work with to be entirely selfless after all. We're also in dire need of some unapologetically brash men to balance out the 'sassy' women like Alisae and Y'shtola.

[aveyond-dreams]

I suppose we'll have to see who the 'new' character is as well, since supposedly we're meant to be getting one. I did spy what looks to be Riol in the trailer and I don't dislike him but I'll laugh if the 'new' character simply amounts to a secondary Scion being promoted to the main cast.

In general I'd like to see more characters who have zero ties to either the Scions or the Students of Baldesion. We've had a decade of both already, so it really is time for the safety blanket to be removed.

I'd personally like to see a cocky treasure hunter if we're pursuing the 'adventurer' angle. There's no need for every single character we work with to be entirely selfless after all. We're also in dire need of some unapologetically brash men to balance out the 'sassy' women like Alisae and Y'shtola.

My preference for the main party moving forward is still for characters that serve as successors to the trio of Ancients, but overall what we need most is contrast and the balancing you mention.

Locke from FFVI and Zidane from FFIX as rogues/treasure hunters/thieves provided good entertainment when they were on screen, and would certainly fit the niche that Thancred left vacant. When it comes to sassy women, they work best when they have someone to bounce off and challenge, but there isn't anyone in the main party for Alisae to bicker with besides Alphinaud, once, in Il Mheg when she grabbed him by the collar.

To be honest though, the sass by now is just too annoying and stale. I miss when girl characters were allowed to be ditzy and silly, like some of Vanille's mannerisms from FFXIII or how interactions between Sarah and Garland went down with their completely different personalities. I even miss when Rikku practically opened FFX-2 with the word "disasterific." Traditional heroines in the way of Yuna or Terra seem largely absent. This is partly due to there being a strong aversion towards showing female cast members in vulnerable moments in FFXIV which would be critical for such characters to grow in meaningful ways. Yet it is perfectly fine to get long drawn out emotional cutscenes with G'raha Tia. For some reason.

I'd like to see a snarky mage type like Emet or even Kuja, so that we do not rely on antagonists alone for any fun theatrics. It does suck that the muscle of our party, Estinien and Thancred, have so much less going on for them right now and Estinien feels so toned down without the revenge plot driving his actions forward. I suppose they could draw inspiration from the likes of Auron, a warrior with a decent bit of mystery to him, or more light-hearted types like Steiner. Gladiolus is probably one of the better examples, protective and straightforward as he was, along with being unafraid to clash with the main protagonist.

This game is in serious danger of having forever characters like WoW has, which I understand has only barely gotten rid of Sylvanas.

[KizuyaKatogami]

You did, but I'll assume you just didn't realize it.

How does any of what he said amount to real-life politics? For the person complaining earlier about people reaching for claims about venat, you do a lot of reaching yourself

[CrownySuccubus]

How does any of what he said amount to real-life politics? For the person complaining earlier about people reaching for claims about venat, you do a lot of reaching yourself

A common political position/dog-whistle is that modern universities are indoctrination machines for left-wing agendas.

Like I said, I'm willing to assume that Theodric didn't realize it. But regardless of whether he intended it to be political or not, inserting a random insult about university students/etc. in a conversation about the plot of FFXIV is super random.

Likewise, we should probably drop it from here at the risk of being accused of going off-topic again.

[aveyond-dreams]

The Scions are indeed all university students. That is precisely the vibe they give. That is precisely why we need to swap them out for, idk, protagonists that are comparatively more interesting? If I wanted to play a game with just a cast of students I would go out and play Persona.

[Brinne]

The WoL absolutely has a baseline personality, within which the player is given a lot of room to work further. No matter what you do, the WoL is going to be quiet, passive, and kind-hearted. They will love adventure. They're pretty humble. If you do the DRK quests, your character gets defined further - a good person who wants to do good, but is also struggling deeply with both internal resentment and guilt.

Similarly, the devs have actually talked about flirting with letting the WoL have stronger, more defined reactions to characters and situations ever since the feedback they got from having the WoL respond to Haurchefant's death was mostly positive. Generally, I think it's paid off. Reservations about the MSQ as a whole aside, I actually really enjoyed seeing my WoL more engaged in the action of scenes at the end of Ultima Thule. But for another example, WoL will always be sad and practically pine for Emet-Selch in Elpis and beyond. Even players who hate Emet-Selch will reach for him in anguish as they leave Ktisis. (It rules.)

And honestly, I actually really like this most of the time. I like the feeling of "collaboration" where the game gives me some building blocks in terms of my character and then I shape the particulars, and I like that my character has the capacity to surprise me in their reactions so my imagination gets going in terms of incorporating that into my understanding of them. The WoL is such a central figure in the plot that there has to be a baseline when talking about them and their relationships.

Yes, there are times when I find the "passive" aspect frustrating in that I disagree with their approach - as far back as ARR, playing nice with Merlwyb had me gritting my teeth a little. But, uh, hey, it's consistent, I guess. Venat is the closest thing to a dealbreaker in that regard, as usual. But I don't have a problem seeing the WoL as a flawed person in some regards.

[CrownySuccubus]

Meh. Probably wouldn't make any difference. Ishgard and the Far Eastern groups were about as far as you could get from the "educated in Sharlayan" archetype that half of the Scions represent, and most of them quickly begin to conform to the same moral standing as the main cast.

The core problem remains that they want the player character to always be on the side of "good", and have everyone else marvel at their goodness.