What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

[Ixon]

Apparently having us waste time with rabbits on the moon or hopping around as frogs in Sharlayan was considered a better use of time and budget than Garlean civil war scenes.

Ok, I too was also for a Garlean expansion, but c'mon. One sidequest as a frog, and a comical relief race exactly like the Moogles in HW, or the Namazu in SB, or the Pixies in ShB was the breaking point?

[aveyond-dreams]

Ok, I too was also for a Garlean expansion, but c'mon. One sidequest as a frog, and a comical relief race exactly like the Moogles in HW, or the Namazu in SB, or the Pixies in ShB was the breaking point?

The Pixies in Shadowbringers did not outstay their welcome the way the Loporrits did. The Moogles and Namazu also did not proceed to waste our time with the worst filler arc since the trolley quests in Shadowbringers.

Comical relief is nice when appropriate. For an expansion marketed as "oh no it's the end of the world!" there was way too much of it.

[Nekokaori]

Ok, I too was also for a Garlean expansion, but c'mon. One sidequest as a frog, and a comical relief race exactly like the Moogles in HW, or the Namazu in SB, or the Pixies in ShB was the breaking point?

Moogles in hw had contex outside of a stupid joke...
Pixies have legit reason outside stupid jokes..

Namazu.. Also was only 1-2 cutscenes and had far more context and impact of trusting them ever good to learn..


Also bunny yes had context but not enough for amount of bs jokes the toad thing meha.. But this was suppose to be end of the world... End of the world has no place for stupid jokes and stuffing our faces with cheeseburgers (sware someone in america wrote that trash)

[DelSolstice]

• The mighty Zodiark, which has been build up as this mighty(evil) entity over several expansions, turns out to be nothing but filler trash for the first Endwalker trial

Killing Zodiark, after Fandaniel leaves us no real choice but to fight him, ensured that Eitherys' aether shield was gone. It's hardly filler. It leads right into everything after. It also was completely shocking in a good way. If he'd been the last boss that would have been boring to me.

• The true cause of the Final Days is a pet-project from an ancient which goes mad after observing countless dead world and possibly causing the death of several world by projecting negative emotions unto them, and is thus dead-set on bringing despair to every world, upon which said ancient goes mad and is now letting her run her course to test humanity if they can withstand/fight despair

Yes, he went mad at that point, as he felt that in a true paradise animals should have rights, especially sentient ones like Meteion, and finally snapped because he loved his daughter Meteion more than he loved other people. His actions also came from a fleeting moment of incredible rage and was not some carefully considered evil plan, which made it a lot more believable. Since Kairos erased his own memory too, he was much less able to help reverse this. My main complaint was it wasn't clear on the timing. Did Elidibus know that that was the crucial moment in history where the ancient world was doomed? Odd that he wasn't a little more clear about that.

• Venat, who hasn't had her memory wiped + still remembers you from being in Elpis, quite apparently doesn't lift a finger to learn about Dynamis herself or to mobilize the other ancients to end Meteion then and there, and instead chooses to turn herself into Hydaelyn, sunder the world and the inhabitants, thereby forcing them to live with and face despair and gambling that their resilience against despair might be enough to face Meteion one day

We see in 5.2 when exploring the Anamnesys archives that she quite literally got more ancients involved and tried to get other convocation members involved on the Hydaelyn project. She was absolutely not working alone, it was a whole group of people. Who do you think the original Watcher was? Her confrontation at the temple in Amaurot wtih members of the Zodiark project happened both after Zodiark already did two restorations and also after she had taken on the power of Hydaelyn. You can complain that they didn't explain it a bit better, especially when the post-Elpis cutscene was mostly metaphorical, but that's a bit different


I have a few complaints about Endwalker, and do rank it a little below Shadowbringers, but none of them have to do with Zodiark, Venat, or the real source of the Final Days.

[Theodric]

They made the conscious decision to not only cut out an entire expansion but deliberately choose to end many of the major established storylines in the base MSQ's. They could have paced themselves better and focused on the meaningful stuff and left all the comic relief and so on for patch content. Which would be more suited to light hearted affairs.

It's not like anything of consequence happened to the protagonists in Endwalker, either. So there was no need for a 'break' from 'trauma' as far as I see it.

[KizuyaKatogami]

We see in 5.2 when exploring the Anamnesys archives that she quite literally got more ancients involved and tried to get other convocation members involved on the Hydaelyn project. She was absolutely not working alone, it was a whole group of people. Who do you think the original Watcher was? Her confrontation at the temple in Amaurot wtih members of the Zodiark project happened both after Zodiark already did two restorations and also after she had taken on the power of Hydaelyn. You can complain that they didn't explain it a bit better, especially when the post-Elpis cutscene was mostly metaphorical, but that's a bit different

Except it’s unknown whether she told them the whole truth or not.Either way though, she didn’t tell the convocation or attempt to until after the final days had already happened. She had the knowledge to potentially avert it and chose not to. That’s the main problem people have with her and what the OP seems to mean.

[PawPaw]

She definitely told no one on the Convocation, the people who needed to know the most. We are told this by Emet-Selch in ShB, Elidibus in EW and the Watcher on the moon had no idea what the cause of the Final Days was. When asked by Y'shtola if the Ancients ever knew what the source of the issue was, they shake their head and confirm that they did not. So not even her chosen watchdog was told the truth.

I have no reason to believe that she told her followers the truth either. The people in that 5.2 cutscene didn't even seem to be aware that summoning a primal would destroy their souls as they speak about their sadness at her leaving them and how they needed her to lead them. Odd way to speak when you know you'll be dead and gone.

[KageTokage]

Considering that the Watcher states that "her true intentions are unknown even to us", she can't have told them about the actual cause of the Final Days and rather was focused on rallying people against Zodiark to prevent the third round of sacrifices, which ended up having so little actual relevance to her reasoning for causing the Sundering that it felt more like an excuse that would gather followers more readily then the long game she had in mind.

Which is why should've just made her forget everything so it wouldn't seem like she was being deliberately deceptive towards basically everyone.

[Starshower]

I personally loved Elpis and the character of Hermes and Meteion... I thought they were very relatable and I felt a close connection to them. I think a lot of the hate I'm seeing is if you can't stand cuteness (cute bunnies and bird girl) you'll dismiss those parts of the story no matter what... but that's on you and your tolerances or suspension of disbelief.


I liked how endwalker was fast paced, like a victory lap for the ending of the saga. It wasn't a well structured story in the sense that it's complete in itself where it would be a good starting point for a new player (heavensward and shadowbringers are this type of neat self contained story). Endwalker depends on everything preceding it. It's not a good starting point or self contained story. But as someone playing trough it, knowing it would tie up the story and lead us to the ending of it, I liked the frenetic pace. We have a lot of things happening fast and unexpectedly, like garlemanld being dealt with so fast (me, personally, can't stand garlemald, already had too much of it with stormblood, sorrows of werlyt, bozja and shb patch interludes) and when the end of tower or babil happened, sending us to the moon so fast felt like things were off the rails, happening too fast, only for shortly after realize zodiark was the first trial!? I liked the exciting pace, and the breaking of expectations. Elpis came straight out of left field. I liked the wild ride feel. However, I don't think the ending was the best possible.


I feel like, for example. 5.3 had a way better ending feel than endwalker's end. However, when comparing expansions, we can't include the patch content, in my opinion. Heavensward had a quite lacklustre ending, with the ambiguous estinien / nidhigg fate. I think it would only feel complete after the dragonsong war ended. And while 5.3 was amazing we can't judge endwalker against the entire shadowbringers yet. Who knows what the patches msq will be like. I think shb was only exciting by the very end, on knolusia pt.2 onwards. Endwalker meanwhile was exciting all the way trough. When making these considerations of player experience as I play trough it all, I'd put Endwalker and Shadowbringers interchangeably at the top, Endwalker for it's exciting story moments every step of the way making it have a breakneck pace that I enjoyed. and Shadowbringers for it's more self contained story that was very well executed. If we add 5.3 it goes to the top, for sure.

[PawPaw]

I think a lot of the hate I'm seeing is if you can't stand cuteness (cute bunnies and bird girl) you'll dismiss those parts of the story no matter what... but that's on you and your tolerances or suspension of disbelief.

Not sure if you're directing this towards this thread or EW criticisms on the web in general but I feel quite confident in saying that rabbits and Meteion have not been a focus of complaints at any point here. An occasional few comments? Yes, but I can't think of anyone for whom they are a cornerstone of their issues.

I can judge EW as it stands right now as the developers have said a few times at this point that there will be no post-EP patches that will wrap up the story the way we have had in the past. 6.1 is the beginning of an entirely new chapter and is not meant to be a continuation of EW. It is done and I am not happy with it and therefore I feel quite safe making my opinions on it known.

I've said this before but EW was the equivalent of a Michael Bay movie, the fast pace and big explosions happening constantly to detract from the fact that the story is a complete mess. I'm happy for you that you were able to enjoy it and loved the "frenetic" feel of it, but it destroyed characterizations and stories that I have loved for years and I can't see the sparkles for all of the mud.