What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

[Rulakir]

I was mostly okay with that scene (with some reservations about how Venat's actions were deliberately and transparently being softened, again, for the reasons you described - oh Venat, you card! I bet you were laughing at me the whole time, and even threw in a joke during the 12K years of torment you inflicted upon me! Say, was the joke Shadowbringers? Hilarious!!!) - but I could sort of write that off as overall consistent with Emet's characterization as ridiculously soft-hearted, and his demonstrated sensitivity toward the WoL's feelings. Then the thread clarified that his "as a show of respect to the last of us" declaration was about Venat, and I proceeded to flip tables.

I'll never be happy with that scene even given the soft-hearted context, but they couldn't very well have the fan favorite character (by a HUGE margin) undo all the gaslighting they set up to try to convince players to love Venat. The last part though, I absolutely do not accept. Emet was in anguish in the Hades trial that the WoL was using the power that had destroyed their world, then he's going to turn around and praise Venat at the end? F outta here with that.

If you were to take over Ishikawa or Oda's position in the story and rewrite Endwalker to "fix" the story, or an expansion pre-Endwalker, how would you go about it?

The long answer is I would've fundamentally rewritten everything involving the Ancients because I was unhappy with how the moon, Zodiark, Elidibus, and Elpis were handled just for starters. This isn't even getting into how thematically EW was a bust for me or that outside of two zones the Final Days were a whole lot of nothing when they should've been used to give the sundered a greater appreciation of the apocalypse the Ancients had to endure, instead it wasn't any worse than any given calamity.

The short answer is everything could've remained the same except Elpis ended in an AU (where Venat gets to maintain her likeability) while in our timeline we treat Hydaelyn as a reluctant ally, condemning her actions but having no choice but to follow through the path she's set forth.

Part of me is loathe to remove Elpis and, let's face it, Elpis hard carried this expansion. I think without it and Garlemald, EW gets ranked equal or even lower than SB. However, what I really wanted from EW were first person perspective flashbacks as Azem. While I loved hanging out with Emet and Hythlodaeus it was as a "familiar" and I had to, once again, listen to stories about my past self while being treated like I'm not that person. Perhaps if we'd been allowed to visit Emet in the aetherial sea (since Hydaelyn hints to us very early on that she ushered him there) we could've tapped into his memories and he could've coached us on how to better use the Echo instead of Venat. Rather than playing babysitter to Meteion, it could've been an interesting mystery we had to piece together by looking through the memories of everyone who was there.

[AziraSyuren]

Question for the thread;

If you were to take over Ishikawa or Oda's position in the story and rewrite Endwalker to "fix" the story, or an expansion pre-Endwalker, how would you go about it? I'm curious, this isn't even a "well if YOU know so much why don't YOU apply for a job on the msq team!?" type of drag, I just think a lot of people in here have interesting takes on where they would've liked the story to go, and I'd like to hear from anyone who feels like succinctly laying out their do-over plan.

1. Drastically shorten the second Sharlayan section and replace it with another past zone that focused more on Amaurot's internal politics and made it seem much less idyllic than it did so that Venat's actions seemed a little more justified. I also think a lot of the story beats involving Hermes could've landed a bit better if they did this too.
2. Flip the first and second half of the moon zone so Zodiark is confronted at the climax instead of near the beginning.
3. Remove Y'shtola's line of dialogue in UT asking us not to bring the Scions back so nobody can pretend that fake-out heroic sacrifices were the point of that section.
4. Send us off to a few solo instances taking place in ARR/HW/StB zones that showed the effects of the Final Days spreading to them, too. I'd probably drop them in the Thavnair and/or drastically-shortened Sharlayan sections.
5. I'd leave Meteion in, but make the Endsinger herself learn more on the eldritch horror angle by making the sisters encountering something in the depths of space that forced them to become that way instead of mutating into it through despair. This is more about personal preference and less about what I think would improve the quality of the story.

I don't really have that many problems with EW as a whole, tbh. It's still my favorite expac story, but my opinion on Venat's characterization and portrayal has drastically decreased over time so a lot of my improvements would be focused on that. Almost everything else is just for the sake of pacing.

[Caurcas]

Question for the thread;

If you were to take over Ishikawa or Oda's position in the story and rewrite Endwalker to "fix" the story, or an expansion pre-Endwalker, how would you go about it? I'm curious, this isn't even a "well if YOU know so much why don't YOU apply for a job on the msq team!?" type of drag, I just think a lot of people in here have interesting takes on where they would've liked the story to go, and I'd like to hear from anyone who feels like succinctly laying out their do-over plan.

1. Make Dynamis anathema to the Ancients.
2. Change Meteion into something more interesting, or have her get infected by something that causes the sound/aetheric rather than being the cause. I suggest something like the old C'tan from 40k. Star eating vampires.
3. Make the 3rd sacrifice into the current spoken races.
4. Change Venat's motivation into protecting them.
5. Give Zodiark a flaw that forces him to consume and corrupt the aether of the Ancients within as time goes on. Resulting in extreme tempering similar to what we see in current races. Basically have him as a flawed prototype that was rushed into use.
6. Leave dead characters dead.

[Lauront]

^Agree with all those. They wouldn't require overhauling the story too greatly but would fix some of its biggest narrative stumbling blocks.

[Caurcas]

Also I would disassociate our WoL from Azem. Seems a bit forced to me.

[Xirean]

Also I would disassociate our WoL from Azem. Seems a bit forced to me.

Do you mean make us not a reincarnation of Azem or that Azem doesn't match the PC's gender?

[Caurcas]

Do you mean make us not a reincarnation of Azem or that Azem doesn't match the PC's gender?

Not a reincarnation.

[Xirean]

Not a reincarnation.

Oof, hard pass. There have been hints of who the WoL was for a while, it's really nice to finally have a solid answer for that. I could do with Azem not being gender locked to the character though. Certainly makes them feel less like their own person and more like an extension of us.

[Caurcas]

Also having a threat be tangible would work wonders. It's why Garlemald and Thavnir work in EW and Elpis, Sharlayan and Ultima Thule don't. Also seeing more of the Garlean civil war would've been beneficial to drawing the player. How effective a scene would be if we were privy to communications between two legions before they blew each other apart and during. The sorrow, the despair, the cries all would be more effective than Meteion.

[aveyond-dreams]

Apparently having us waste time with rabbits on the moon or hopping around as frogs in Sharlayan was considered a better use of time and budget than Garlean civil war scenes.